Slashdot discusses Peace Corps in "Visiting the World, as a Geek?"
Read and comment on this excerpt from a discussion on Slashdot on "Visiting the World, as a Geek?" Slashdot is the premier technical discussion board on the web. This thread has many good comments on joining the Peace Corps. Prospective volunteers are encouraged to read the entire story as it will address many of their questions and concerns about the Peace Corps.
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Visiting the World, as a Geek?
EducationPosted by Cliff on Thursday October 17, @05:11PM from the globe-trotting dept. Han Onymous asks: "In nine months my contract as a research assistent at my Alma Mater will come to an end. It will not be renewed, I don't want it to be anyway. But outside the economy is too ill to welcome me. I am young. I am healthy. And I want to see the world before I've got the wife and the kids and the double mortgage. I have no money saved, and I don't plan to save some until then. What can a skillful geek (electrical, electronical and software engineer, speaks three languages fluently) like me do to see the world. Volunteer ? Working for a multinational with exchange programs? Something with no connection at all to the tech world? Please share your experience."
Peace Corp (Score:5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17, @05:14PM (#4473861) Join the peace corps [peacecorps.gov].
Re:Peace Corp (Score:0) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17, @05:18PM (#4473905) NO! Peace Corps is for suckers who need something to do. Do yourself a favor and find something worthwhile like the Red Cross.
Re:Peace Corp (Score:2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 17, @06:03PM (#4474243) Join Aiesec exchange program
http://us.aieseconline.net
Re:Peace Corp (Score:1) by stephanruby on Friday October 18, @02:22AM (#4476783) Alter Relationship (User #542433 Info) AIESEC is an international work exchange program for internships. It's not the same as the Peace Corp. It's run by students in 85+ countries. In AIESEC, you could end up working for a multinational corporation in one country or a non-profit organization in another. Chances are, you won't be able to chose the country that accepts you, but you might be able to chose the general region in the World you may end up working in. It comes with a built-in social network and a support group of University students wherever you go, but the drawback is that this kind of support can vary widely from chapter to chapter. Judges on The Importance of Plain Language [michbar.org] Re:Except (Score:0, Offtopic) by chuckwroks on Thursday October 17, @06:35PM (#4474487) Alter Relationship (User #564628 Info) Yeah! What he said! # 1 reply beneath your current threshold. Re:Peace Corpok but **Open Source** is better (Score:0) by buswolley (josh@nospam.martianfrontier.com) on Thursday October 17, @06:08PM (#4474285) Alter Relationship (User #591500 Info | http://www.martianfrontier.com/) peace Corps is good but..We are geeks..why don't you volunteer time to an open source project or something.
Why hasn't anybody else said this?? The Mayor
Re:Peace Corpok but **Open Source** is better (Score:1) by buswolley (josh@nospam.martianfrontier.com) on Thursday October 17, @06:12PM (#4474314) Alter Relationship (User #591500 Info | http://www.martianfrontier.com/) Maybe I am ignorant? If so ignore parent?
Peace all The Mayor
Re:Peace Corpok but **Open Source** is better (Score:3, Insightful) by ceejayoz (cj@ceejaCOBOLyoz.com minus language) on Thursday October 17, @06:13PM (#4474323) Alter Relationship (User #567949 Info | http://www.ceejayoz.com/ | Last Journal: Monday September 16, @07:05PM) Open source projects don't generally provide many travel opportunities.
ceejayoz [ceejayoz.com]
Re:Peace Corpok but **Open Source** is better (Score:2) by Micah ([micah] [at] [JesusIsLife.net]) on Thursday October 17, @06:23PM (#4474414) Alter Relationship (User #278 Info | http://travtalk.org/ | Last Journal: Friday August 17, @10:33PM) Unless you're lucky enough to have Red Hat or Mandrake or someone fund your travel to expos, or have an expo pay your way to come talk about the project. It happens. --- God is still in control, He hasn't left the throne. Re:Peace Corpok but **Open Source** is better (Score:1) by chuckwroks on Thursday October 17, @06:40PM (#4474519) Alter Relationship (User #564628 Info) It does happen, I know people it's happened to. But it didn't heppen to anyone with this guy's stated qualifications. Knocking over a little old lady for her pension check happens a helluva lot more frequently. 2 Points for imagination.
Re:Peace Corpok but **Open Source** is better (Score:1) by dazdaz on Thursday October 17, @07:06PM (#4474637) Alter Relationship (User #77833 Info) This is quite interesting because you can go around the world as a teacher or doctor however you can go nowhere as a geek. I wonder if this will change in 5/10 years as we become more dependent upon technology.
Re:Peace Corp (Score:5, Informative) by Otisserie on Thursday October 17, @06:22PM (#4474402) Alter Relationship (User #618411 Info) I taught computer science in Africa in 1981 with the Peace Corps. Probably one of the first volunteers to do it. I had a great time, but every Peace Corps situation is completely different; there's a lot of luck involved. Peace Corps does have a number of things going for it: 1) medical care and a good connection to the US Embassy, if things get messy; 2) a readjustment allowance that I believe is about $225 for every month you spend abroad (this is over and above your living stipend); 3) non-competitive eligibility for civil service jobs if you complete your service; 4) an actual reason to be in the country you're in, you're not just a tourist; 5) student loan deferrment; 6) I found that both employers and grad schools respected Peace Corps service; I'm convinced it helped me get into grad school. Your mileage may vary, but all told I'm very glad I did it.
Re:Peace Corp (Score:2) by jonbrewer on Thursday October 17, @11:07PM (#4476075) Alter Relationship (User #11894 Info | http://www.rock-chalk.com/) Peace Corps does have a number of things going for it:
The "things going for it" you list don't exactly coincide with the poster's desires, but at least they're accurate.
I found that the Peace Corps bureaucracy is pretty much the worst nightmare of any free thinking geek. And the tech jobs they talk about just don't exist. While I wouldn't trade my time as a volunteer for anything, I certainly wouldn't sign up again.
I was accepted in 1997, invited in 1998, delayed, invited, delayed, and finally made it to Poland in 1999. I had planned to teach networking skills, having owned an ISP in the early days. I ended up as an English teacher in a rural school, because that's pretty much what Peace Corps does. The school treated me like a kid, because that's what their previous volunteers were.
I resigned after a year in-country, (having outlasted almost half of PC Poland 15) resolving never to work for the US Government again.
I certainly see myself volunteering again, but next time will be with a privately funded NGO. Or maybe just on my own.
Advice to poster: steer clear of Peace Corps. Do some serious research before committing to any organization. Or if you're not of that mindset, put $4000 in your bank account, grab "Lonely Planet" Eastern Europe, and wander around for a year. Email me if you like - I know your situation well.
Re:Peace Corp (Score:1) by Otisserie on Friday October 18, @03:13AM (#4476910) Alter Relationship (User #618411 Info) You'll get no argument from me about the Peace Corps bureaucracy; it does manage a unique combination of U.S. and host country inefficiency. That said, however, the poster clearly stated that he had no savings, certainly not $4000. Peace Corps does pay your way out and back, provide free medical coverage, and some money when you come home; which *does* coincide with poster's desires. Furthermore, I think there is a very real difference between backpacking through a country vs. living and working there.
Peace Corps (Score:5, Informative) by jefu on Thursday October 17, @06:37PM (#4474499) Alter Relationship (User #53450 Info) I did the peace corps thing after college. And I'd recommend it highly. If you have the chance, jump at it. You'll see and do things you'd probably never encounter otherwise and you'll learn a lot. Some employers will discount it as will some grad schools - but others will look on it as a big plus.
Re:Peace Corp (Score:4, Interesting) by dan_lamb on Thursday October 17, @07:35PM (#4474841) Alter Relationship (User #618441 Info) Forget the Peace Corps.
Join the Army. I did it, and I loved every minute of it. You should also forget about using your 'tech skills'. Join the Infantry. You'll learn more about life in three years in the infantry than you would in a lifetime in some crappy cubicle or university lab. You might also get a chance to see some beautiful places like Japan, korea, Thailand, or Germany. You might also see some not so beautiful places under less than ideal circumstances. Which story would you rather tell your grand children: '... and our database design was better than everyone elses' or '... and there I was in my fox hole with bombs exploding all around me ...'?
If it's adventure you're looking for, look no further than www.goarmy.com. Freedom isn't free. Anty up and kick in.
Re:Peace Corp (Score:5, Insightful) by bugnuts on Thursday October 17, @07:52PM (#4474950) Alter Relationship (User #94678 Info) If I were modding, I'd mod you up, dan.
But there's one big, nasty assumption you're making when you say Which story would you rather tell your grand children: '... and our database design was better than everyone elses' or '... and there I was in my fox hole with bombs exploding all around me ...'?
The assumption you're making is that you'll live to have grandchildren if you have bombs going off around you. I would say that now might NOT be the time to join the military, unless you honestly want to see action. Most geeks I know don't "take orders" very well, and aren't very keen on shooting at others, unless they're driving a remote-control joystick-driven bomb with cool graphics and lots of 'splosions.
Re:Peace Corp (Score:5, Insightful) by Dolly_Llama on Thursday October 17, @08:19PM (#4475086) Alter Relationship (User #267016 Info | http://slashdot.org/) Most geeks I know don't "take orders" very well
This is a common excuse for people reticent about joining the military. The obvious response is 1) You take orders regardless of whether they come from a sergeant or your shift manager at the Taco Bell. Live with it. 2) Someone has got to be giving the orders, so if you think you can do better, get yourself some stripes or a commision and try it yourself tough guy. Seriously, the military is only as good as its personnel. It needs smart kids (geeks even) as much as it needs stereotypical grunts. The majority of manpower aren't people shooting, but supporting those who shoot.
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." -- Carl Sagan
Re:Peace Corp (Score:2) by bugnuts on Thursday October 17, @08:34PM (#4475203) Alter Relationship (User #94678 Info) Someone has got to be giving the orders, so if you think you can do better, get yourself some stripes or a commision and try it yourself tough guy.
That's perfectly reasonable, and it sounds like he already has the required degree. The original suggestion was enlisting in the infantry. I don't knock that suggestion at all, but it's directed at what looks to be the wrong person. I'm just saying, if you enlist, expect to see action in these times. We are, in one form or another, in a state of war.
If you do enlist as a geek, I salute you. The recruiter will promise you the world. GET IT IN WRITING on where you'll be assigned and what your duties will be.
Re:Peace Corp (Score:2) by JimPooley on Friday October 18, @04:25AM (#4477062) Alter Relationship (User #150814 Info | http://slashdot.org/) GET IT IN WRITING on where you'll be assigned and what your duties will be.
Yeah, 'cos everyone knows that geeks need to have special treatment and are better than everyone else...
"Information wants to be paid" Re:Peace Corp (Score:5, Insightful) by Ian Bicking (ianb@colorstudy.com) on Thursday October 17, @09:37PM (#4475588) Alter Relationship (User #980 Info | http://www.colorstudy.com/) You take orders regardless of whether they come from a sergeant or your shift manager at the Taco Bell. Live with it. If your shift manager tells you to do something against your judgement or your ethics, you can always quit. You can't quit the army, and you can't refuse to do what they tell you. The worst things done by humans have always been done under orders.
Personally, I believe I am responsible for what I do, regardless of who tells me to do it. When you volunteer yourself into a coercive situation, you have handed your soul over to another's judgement. Maybe you think the people you take orders from are going to be good caretakers of your will and your soul, but that's one hell of a risk. Do you really know them that well? Do you even know who the hell they are? It's a long chain of command, and in any situation it's hard to know where it ends... do they even tell you where the command comes from? Do they ever tell you why? Are you willing to live blind?
When you spend your time playing games and doing busywork this doesn't much matter. I wouldn't bet on irrelevence anymore, though.
Re:Peace Corp (Score:2, Insightful) by Dolly_Llama on Thursday October 17, @10:13PM (#4475809) Alter Relationship (User #267016 Info | http://slashdot.org/) If your shift manager tells you to do something against your judgement or your ethics, you can always quit. You can't quit the army, and you can't refuse to do what they tell you. The worst things done by humans have always been done under orders.
Just as you would quit if forced into an unethical situation by the shift manager, military ethics require one to observe that which is moral. There are other things you can do before 'quitting', but the ultimate step is to disobey what you see as an unlawful order.
Personally, I believe I am responsible for what I do, regardless of who tells me to do it.
I agree and so does the military. Those caught doing unethical or downright criminal acts are held accountable. Think Mi Lai or Nuremburg.
When you volunteer yourself into a coercive situation, you have handed your soul over to another's judgement.
That's a contradiction. If you've volunteered, you've made that choice yourself hopefully having given the decision due forethought.
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." -- Carl Sagan
Re:Peace Corp (Score:1) by seanw on Thursday October 17, @10:38PM (#4475945) Alter Relationship (User #45548 Info) (+1, Clear Thinking)
Re:Peace Corp (Score:2) by nomadic (nomadicworld@@@hotmail...com) on Thursday October 17, @11:20PM (#4476154) Alter Relationship (User #141991 Info | http://nomadic.simspace.net/ | Last Journal: Saturday February 23, @08:53AM) I agree and so does the military. Those caught doing unethical or downright criminal acts are held accountable. Think Mi Lai
ONE officer was court-martialled; the one who gave the orders. The people who followed the orders were either not charged or not convicted. In other words, they weren't held accountable. "To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it."-- G.K. Chesterton Re:Peace Corp (Score:4, Insightful) by Ian Bicking (ianb@colorstudy.com) on Thursday October 17, @11:23PM (#4476178) Alter Relationship (User #980 Info | http://www.colorstudy.com/) Those caught doing unethical or downright criminal acts are held accountable. Think Mi Lai or Nuremburg. Funny you should mention My Lai. From this article [disinfo.com]: The My Lai massacre. On March 16, 1968, US soldiers from the Americal Division slaughtered 347 civilians--primarily old men, women, children, and babies--in the Vietnamese village of My Lai 4 (pronounced, very appropriately, as "me lie"). The grunts also engaged in torture and rape of the villagers.
Around six months later, a soldier in the 11th Light Infantry Brigade--known among the men as "the Butcher's Brigade"--wrote a letter telling of widespread killing and torturing of Vietnamese civilians by entire units of the US military (he did not specifically refer to My Lai). The letter was sent to the general in charge of 'Nam and trickled down the chain of command to Major Colin Powell, a deputy assistant chief of staff at the Americal Division, who was charged with investigating the matter and formulating a response.
After a desultory check--which consisted mainly of investigating the soldier who wrote the letter, rather than his allegations--Powell reported that everything was hunkey-dory. There may be some "isolated incidents" by individual bad seeds, but there were no widespread atrocities. He wrote: "In direct refutation of this portrayal is the fact that relations between Americal soldiers and the Vietnamese people are excellent." The matter was closed.
To this day, we might not know about the carnage at My Lai if it hadn't been for another solider who later wisely sent a letter to his Congressman. (Twenty-five years later Powell gave an interview in which he not only failed to condemn the massacre but seemed to excuse it.) Though some of my faith in humanity was restored when I heard a historian note that by the end of the Vietnam War pilots were refused en masse to run bombing missions over North Vietnam, having destroyed all plausible military targets. (The military is working hard to make sure something like that can't happen again, e.g., military drones)
What bothers me about the military is there is no accountability when it comes to its past. What happened to the people who ordered LSD testing on soldiers? What happened to the people who used chemical warfare in Vietnam (Agent Orange)? What about the person who wrote the manual to teach the Latin American soldiers to torture? What does it mean that someone who tried to cover up My Lai has become Secretary of State? I don't know what has become of all the past military criminals, but it doesn't seem like much -- and anyone who joins the military now doesn't really know what they are going to be asked to do, or what the ultimate intentions of the leaders are. But past performance gives a pretty damn good idea.
And what you do in the military isn't about stupid shit like illegal monopolies. You can do wrong on a scale not normally possible in our everyday lives. Let's be honest: you can do evil. And you might not even realize it... when you flip the switch that drops the bomb, do you know if your cause is really just? Do you know who you are killing? Are you ready to kill a child? Are you ready to kill a mother? Because the military is killing a lot of children and mothers these days, and if the bombs start falling on Baghdad, the number of innocent dead is going to skyrocket, no one can deny it. Are you ready to be part of that killing machine?
It's one thing to bet your own life on a cause, but the military gave up that a while ago -- American soldiers die in accidents, not battle. Now they're betting other people's lives on it. The moral weight of killing is far heavier than the moral weight of dying. I'm not a Christian man, but I have great respect for the teachings of Jesus -- I think we all know on which side of the bomb he'd be on when it falls from the plane, and I think we'd all know which person would receive his blessings.
Read the rest of this comment...
Re:Peace Corp (Score:5, Informative) by kasparov on Thursday October 17, @11:26PM (#4476191) Alter Relationship (User #105041 Info | http://www.otherwiseguy.com/) As someone who spent 30 days in solitary confinement for disobeying orders in the Marine Corps (mainly because I am a stubborn geek who isn't good a taking orders that I disagree with--yes I know it was a really bad idea to enlist in the Marine Corps as an Infantryman if I can't take orders...the recruiter called on a particularly interesting day in my life--we'll call it a "learning experience"), I can attest that taking the "ultimate step" and disobeying orders can be a very unpleasant experience. One's rights under the UCMJ are significantly less than one's rights under the US Constitution.
In regards to the job analogy, you don't get sent to jail for deciding to quit your civilian job. Moderators: Remember, confidence is not a substitute for knowledge.
Re:Peace Corp (Score:1) by liloldme on Friday October 18, @03:11AM (#4476904) Alter Relationship (User #593606 Info) Those caught doing unethical or downright criminal acts are held accountable
You must be living in a fantasy world, or are just being fucking naive.
There's a reason why the US wants to exempt its citizens from international justice system [amnestyusa.org]. The crimes committed by the US military forces are plentiful [mediamonitors.net], yet there seems very little accountability to be going on in the US.
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