2007.05.17: May 17, 2007: Headlines: COS - Peru: Internet: Publishing: Editing: Medicine: Community Development: Slashdot: PCOL posts: Modern Medicine Might Have Saved Lincoln
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2007.05.17: May 17, 2007: Headlines: COS - Peru: Internet: Publishing: Editing: Medicine: Community Development: Slashdot: PCOL posts: Modern Medicine Might Have Saved Lincoln
PCOL posts: Modern Medicine Might Have Saved Lincoln
Pcol writes "For the past 13 years the University of Maryland School of Medicine has presented a historical clinicopathological conference where they consider famous historical medical cases such as the death of Alexander the Great and composer Ludwig van Beethoven and provide a modern diagnosis and treatment in each case. This year Dr. Thomas M. Scalea, physician-in-chief for the R Adams Cowley Shock Trauma Center discusses if the world's first center for trauma victims could have improved the outcome had Lincoln's assassination occurred in 2007. 'This could be a recoverable injury, with a reasonable expectation he would survive,' Scalea said, noting that assassin's weapon was relatively impotent compared to the firepower now on the streets today. The modern prognosis predicts that Lincoln might have conceivably recovered enough to return to the White House to complete his second term." RPCV Hugh Pickens served as a Peace Corps Volunteer in Peru from 1970 to 1973 has continued his service on the third goal as the publisher and co-editor of "Peace Corps Online" since 1999.
PCOL posts: Modern Medicine Might Have Saved Lincoln
Modern Medicine Might Have Saved Lincoln
Posted by Zonk on Friday May 18, @03:42PM
from the quickly-to-the-delorean dept.
Biotech Science
Pcol writes "For the past 13 years the University of Maryland School of Medicine has presented a historical clinicopathological conference where they consider famous historical medical cases such as the death of Alexander the Great and composer Ludwig van Beethoven and provide a modern diagnosis and treatment in each case. This year Dr. Thomas M. Scalea, physician-in-chief for the R Adams Cowley Shock Trauma Center discusses if the world's first center for trauma victims could have improved the outcome had Lincoln's assassination occurred in 2007. 'This could be a recoverable injury, with a reasonable expectation he would survive,' Scalea said, noting that assassin's weapon was relatively impotent compared to the firepower now on the streets today. The modern prognosis predicts that Lincoln might have conceivably recovered enough to return to the White House to complete his second term."
[+] biotech, science (tagging beta)
Original Story
Path of the Assassin's Bullet
Besides that Mrs. Lincoln...
(Score:5, Funny)
by andy314159pi (787550) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:44PM (#19183451)
(Last Journal: Wednesday April 11, @05:54PM)
Besides that Mrs. Lincoln... how was the play?
--
You don't eat or drink or mow the lawn;
You just type on Slashdot all day long.
[ Reply to This ]
Re:Besides that Mrs. Lincoln...
(Score:5, Funny)
by Daychilde (744181) Alter Relationship <postmaster@daychilde.com> on Friday May 18, @03:56PM (#19183685)
(http://www.daychilde.com/)
Too soon! Too soon! ;-)
--
A cheerful little bird is sitting here singing.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Besides that Mrs. Lincoln...
(Score:1)
by andy314159pi (787550) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:57PM (#19183701)
(Last Journal: Wednesday April 11, @05:54PM)
awww, but I followed the 125 years until it's funny rule!
--
You don't eat or drink or mow the lawn;
You just type on Slashdot all day long.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Besides that Mrs. Lincoln...
(Score:2)
by shark72 (702619) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:47PM (#19184441)
"Too soon! Too soon! ;-)"
So I suppose it's too early to say "Other than that, Jackie, how was the motorcade?"
--
Always "interesting," never "insightful."
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Besides that Mrs. Lincoln...
(Score:1)
by Daychilde (744181) Alter Relationship <postmaster@daychilde.com> on Saturday May 19, @09:06AM (#19190239)
(http://www.daychilde.com/)
Depends. WTF does Jackie Chan have to do with this? /Zing! ;-)
--
A cheerful little bird is sitting here singing.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Besides that Mrs. Lincoln...
(Score:2)
by creimer (824291) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:05PM (#19183819)
(http://www.creimer.ws/ | Last Journal: Friday January 26, @01:40PM)
It was bloody mess! The worst night in my life. But play wasn't that bad.
--
Once Upon An Albatross... [creimer.ws]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Besides that Mrs. Lincoln...
(Score:3, Funny)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @04:47PM (#19184439)
I've heard Our American Cousin is a dreadful play. Forget modern medicine- with modern technology, the Lincolns could have just stayed in the White House and popped in a DVD that evening.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
This Just in...
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @05:13PM (#19184801)
Modern Medicine Might Have Been Able to Kill Jesus..for good!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Besides that Mrs. Lincoln...
(Score:2)
by pilgrim23 (716938) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:52PM (#19185359)
Linclon...hummm wasn't he an obscure railroad lawyer who's main claim to fame was the part he played in the eventual death of a famous actor of that time?
--
- Minutus cantorum, minutus balorum, minutus carborata descendum pantorum.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
and in another 100 years...
(Score:5, Funny)
by SparkyFlooner (1090661) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:17PM (#19185597)
...they'll announce "We finally have the technology to save Lincoln."
Obligatory Joke:
If Lincoln were alive, what would he be doing today?
Clawing desperately at the lid of his coffin.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Besides that Mrs. Lincoln...
(Score:2, Funny)
by TheLordFlower (1102763) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:27PM (#19185701)
Did you know modern medicine could have stopped millions from dying of the black plague? Imagine that.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Besides that Mrs. Lincoln...
(Score:1)
by whoop (194) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @08:21PM (#19186767)
(http://jcorey.org/)
Where are Bill & Ted when you really need them?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Rin 2007..
(Score:2)
by mrbluze (1034940) Alter Relationship on Saturday May 19, @06:38AM (#19189691)
(Last Journal: Sunday April 29, @07:28AM)
Rather than be elected for president, he'd probably have ended up in the slammer as an enemy combatant, what with the beared, the close-set eyes and that untrustworthy facial expression.
--
Do it yourself, 'cause no one else will do it yourself.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
#
so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:5, Insightful)
by yagu (721525) * Alter Relationship <yayagu@gmai l . com> on Friday May 18, @03:44PM (#19183457)
(Last Journal: Monday January 08, @11:43PM)
So, what this article is saying is, "Today's technology better than technology 150 years ago..."
And, as pointed out in the article, the weapon used then was relatively impotent. Would it not be safe to consider that if the assassination were committed today the assassin likely would have also used updated technology (i.e., something more, ahem, potent)?
[ Reply to This ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:3, Insightful)
by peragrin (659227) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:52PM (#19183611)
Like a ricin pellet inside an umbrella, and tap the guy on the leg?
--
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:1)
by SomeWhiteGuy (920943) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:54PM (#19183647)
(http://cs.selu.edu/~bhall)
Not necessarily the technology but the methods. Classic case of 'hind sight is 20/20'.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:5, Funny)
by zippthorne (748122) Alter Relationship <zipp-post@noSpaM.usa.net> on Friday May 18, @04:04PM (#19183795)
No it isn't. If it was, Lincoln might not have even been hit!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:5, Insightful)
by eln (21727) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:57PM (#19183703)
Sure, but the assassin probably wouldn't have been able to get within 30 yards of the President's seats at the theatre either, and probably wouldn't have even been able to get within a block of the theatre without being sent through a couple of metal detectors, patted down, and getting a background check done either. Even then, he probably would have had to have raised a lot of money for the Republican party to get into the theatre itself.
I think this article is just a pat on the back to the medical research community for how far we've come. Clearly, there is so much different now in terms of security, weaponry available, and etc, that you could never say that Lincoln would have survived now, or even that there would have been a serious attempt on his life. Hell, in Lincoln's day anyone could just walk right up to the White House, knock on the front door, and request an audience. These days, you can't even get close.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:5, Interesting)
by jfengel (409917) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:14PM (#19183961)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Monday November 03, @04:59PM)
It's kind of astonishing to think that security around the President was so much less then. It's not like they didn't know that people had a gripe against Lincoln. Yeah, nobody had assassinated a President before, but sovereign rulers had been the target of people with grievances before.
I wonder if they were just naive about security, or if perhaps it was a more genteel time in general.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:3, Insightful)
by sexyrexy (793497) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:18PM (#19184039)
I think it was a far more civilized time in many respects. For example, I think it's a pretty recent development that a non-trivial bloc of the population would actually cheer for the assassination of President Bush. Now, regardless of whether we agree with his policies, I find that pretty disgusting. I think partisanship and common decency have plunged to new depths just as human rights overall and quality of life have risen to great heights.
--
Rex is 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:5, Interesting)
by jfengel (409917) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:27PM (#19184173)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Monday November 03, @04:59PM)
It's kind of ironic, given that Americans had just fought their bloodiest war ever, to call it a more "civilized time".
It's often said that people were more civil to each other in the past. I'm not certain if it's true, or if it's just rose-colored glasses.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:5, Funny)
by Puff of Logic (895805) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:07PM (#19184713)
It's kind of ironic, given that Americans had just fought their bloodiest war ever, to call it a more "civilized time".
On the contrary, it was the most civil war we ever had.
--
Who meta-moderates the meta-moderators?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Uncivilized Government
(Score:1)
by MonkeyCookie (657433) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:24PM (#19185663)
The United States was a rough place back then. I recall an incident that occurred in Congress (I think in the Senate) back in the 1840's or 1850's, where one senator got really angry with another, and severely beat the other senator with a cane right there on the Senate floor. Backwoodsmen-types who were elected to Congress from the newer states on the frontier tended to be particularly prone to rowdy behavior.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Uncivilized Government - Linky
(Score:2)
by MonkeyCookie (657433) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:30PM (#19185751)
Ah, I finally found a link to something talking about this incident [wikipedia.org]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by DerekLyons (302214) Alter Relationship <<fairwater> <at> <gmail.com>> on Friday May 18, @08:39PM (#19186851)
It's often said that people were more civil to each other in the past. I'm not certain if it's true, or if it's just rose-colored glasses.
It's very true - and I've seen the decline within my own lifetime. (I'm currently 43.)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
They weren't
(Score:3, Informative)
by Moraelin (679338) Alter Relationship on Saturday May 19, @03:18AM (#19188841)
(Last Journal: Monday June 21, @05:25PM)
They weren't more civil at any point in time, except in some formal settings. We can probably say that when gentlemen met at a posh club, they weren't calling each other cocksuckers, but then again even today they still don't. Move out of that setting, though, and it wasn't some rose-coloured golden age of being nice.
For starters, in that same age, they had just fought a war over, you know, _slavery_. People were bought and sold, treated in some cases worse than cattle, and savagely whipped or occasionally executed on a whim. How's that for being nice to one's fellow humans?
And speaking of that civil war, it saw its share of such colourful characters as Bloody Bill Anderson [wikipedia.org]. The guy was _proud_ of applying terror tactics and executions not only against captured soldiers, but against civillian union sympathisers too.
Newspapers had not yet discovered that it pays to at least pretend to be impartial and objective. Yeah, I know they still aren't really, but back then they didn't even bother pretending. Lopsided, inflamatory and outright insulting journalism was the order of the day. Mud-slinging and outright libel were just normal political tools.
And then you should see what they said about other races and people. If you think nowadays' coverage of Iraq was a shame, back then it was orders of magnitude worse. It was for example the age of "white man's burden" and "mission to civilize" theories, where three quarters of the globe (including such civilizations like China or Japan) were presented as worse than Neanderthals, and it was the _burden_ of us poor white guys from the west to go sneer at them and shaft them, as some civilizing mission. And that was actually the _nice_ version.
It was also the age of such things as train robberies. No, they didn't jump into the train from horseback like in the movies. They just derailed the train, lots of people died, and the survivors got robbed.
It was the age of driving the natives out of their lands, and the occasional massacre. Custer for example wasn't a gentleman soldier in the war against savages, as the media at the time presented him. He was a guy who massacred whole camps, including a good percentage of the women and children, and held the survivors hostage (again, unarmed women and children) to force the rest of the tribe to accept being pushed into a reservation.
Etc, etc, etc.
The past _never_ was as cheerfully rose coloured as naive nostalgia presents it. That goes not only for the 19'th century. The Renaissance wasn't a cheerful age, like ren faires would have you believe, but a shithole that turned the whole european culture morbid and depressive for centuries. The knights in shiny armour weren't ideals of chivalry, but... well, let's just say that one manual for knights advised them to literally beat their wives senseless (as in, literally, until she loses consciousness) to keep them in line, and to break the wife's nose so other men won't find her pretty any more. And that's just one of the many atrocities of that caste. Etc.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 19, @09:47AM (#19190363)
Well said, sir -- the horrors of the American Civil War dwarf anything we're ever likely to face. But one of the characteristics of living in the developed world in the early 21st century is that almost all of us (certainly just about anyone contributing to /.) live in amazing security and luxury compared with people in other times -- and yet we seem to imagine that we're somehow in great peril and that things were easier then...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by Johnny5000 (451029) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:32PM (#19184249)
(http://slashdot.org/)
For example, I think it's a pretty recent development that a non-trivial bloc of the population would actually cheer for the assassination of President Bush. Now, regardless of whether we agree with his policies, I find that pretty disgusting.
People cheer when murderers get the chair, when Saddam Hussein was hanged, when terrorists get shot or blown up, etc.
I guess it all depends on how much someone is hated, and whether in their opinion someone's death makes the world a better place.
--
Food is free for the taking for every other animal on earth, except humans (in our culture.)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by Hoi Polloi (522990) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:54PM (#19184561)
I find the people who cheer other's deaths are as creepy as the people being killed.
--
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by xerxesVII (707232) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:27PM (#19185029)
Why do you find the people being killed creepy at all? It's not like it was their choice.
--
Due to mods' varying senses of humor, I'm pretty well relegated to trolldom now.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:1)
by AmiAthena (798358) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:16PM (#19185569)
(http://www.jokeped.com/)
Perhaps Hoi Polloi was referring to the act of people being killed, not the people themselves, as creepy.
--
Grammar peeve of the month: I know it ends with -ly, but I swear to you that "timely" is an adjective.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:1)
by sesshomaru (173381) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:36PM (#19184311)
(http://darkcyclone0.tripod.com/snyktn.html | Last Journal: Thursday August 03, @03:55PM)
For example, I think it's a pretty recent development that a non-trivial bloc of the population would actually cheer for the assassination of President Bush.
Wait, what?!?
Your statement has confused me. We are speaking, I believe, about a time in history when the United States of America was in the throes of a brutal civil war. We're talking about massive armed rebellion against Lincoln's government, including such things as ironclads, the 19th century's superweapon and large amounts of professionally trained soldiers. All of this was specifically because a significant portion of the population was horrified at the election of Lincoln. It was specifically against Lincoln and the policies they expected him to enact.
Thousands of people cheered the assassination of Lincoln and feted John Wilkes Booth as a hero, a Brutus of the modern world (this was how he saw himself, as well).
Just because they lost the war, doesn't mean they weren't cheering Lincoln's assassination.
--
...each carried a huge funnel and I realized with horror that I'd seen this awful thing before...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by cayenne8 (626475) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:46PM (#19185295)
(http://www.outpimp.com/?x=57020 | Last Journal: Tuesday November 01, @06:08PM)
"Your statement has confused me. We are speaking, I believe, about a time in history when the United States of America was in the throes of a brutal civil war. We're talking about massive armed rebellion against Lincoln's government..."
Ah yes....the War of Northern Agression, I studied that in my history books.
--
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by cayenne8 (626475) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:48PM (#19185321)
(http://www.outpimp.com/?x=57020 | Last Journal: Tuesday November 01, @06:08PM)
D'oh....gotta learn to hit preview first.
War of Northern Aggression
--
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
You mean the War of Southern Hypocrisy :-)
(Score:2)
by A nonymous Coward (7548) * Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:18PM (#19185603)
The usual pro-confederacy arguments are that they were fighting for states' rights and not for slavery. These are both patently false.
The southern states were the ones arguing for federal supremacy over states. They wanted the federal government to enforce slavery laws in free states. They argued that a slave owner should retain ownership of those slaves while traveling in free states, and that slaves who escaped to free states should be returned to their owners. Hardly a states rights position!
The war of 1812 was a disaster, economically, for the New England states which depended so heavily on trade. They spent three years getting up the nerve to send a delegation to Washington to bring up the subject of secession, but the war ended before they could do anything. The southern states were the most vocal in condemning secession as treason. How interesting that when their ox was being gored, they acted immediately, not even trying to negotiate with the federal government. So much for honor!
As for economics, which is the usual neo-confedrate blame for northern aggression, it was slavery which put the south at a disadvantage, in that it made labor so cheap that industrialization was too expensive. It really hurt the small farmers who had to do their own labor. I have never understood why poor whites, then or now, backed the slavery system which kept them in poverty. No self-employed man can compete with slaves. The expense of overseers doesn't come close to compensating for the cheap maintenance (crowded crappy housing, no elders to take care of) of slaves.
It was a war for the rich white southerners. Nobody else would have benefited from secession.
--
Don't give your right name, no no no --- Fats Waller
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:You mean the War of Southern Hypocrisy :-)
(Score:1)
by ewl1217 (922107) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @07:38PM (#19186447)
I have never understood why poor whites, then or now, backed the slavery system which kept them in poverty.
You're focusing on the economic side of things, forgetting social implications. Those "poor whites" saw nothing morally wrong with slavery (or else they wouldn't have supported it), and slavery kept them from being the bottom rung on the social ladder. You have to remember that even the poorest white man had more social standing than a slave, and that is sometihng that they didn't want to give up.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:You mean the War of Southern Hypocrisy :-)
(Score:2)
by Evilest Doer (969227) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @11:03PM (#19187741)
It was a war for the rich white southerners. Nobody else would have benefited from secession.
Well, sorry to state the obvious, but wars are generally fought by poor people for the benefit of rich people. Just look at the one we are in now.
--
I really, really hate your freedom.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by BakaHoushi (786009) Alter Relationship <Goss...Sean@@@gmail...com> on Friday May 18, @04:41PM (#19184375)
(http://bakahoushi.deviantart.com/)
I'm not sure that's true. We've just grown in population exponentially since then, thus increasing the number of horrific maniacs in the world. (If, for example, you could say 1 out of every 1,000,000 persons will commit a heinous crime) On top of that, is it that we have sunk into new lows as a whole, or are we now merely more open about our more base instincts today? I'm sure plenty of Southerners cheered when they heard news of Lincoln's death. Though their voices were probably not heard. How many of them could read and write? They certainly had no LiveJournal or MySpace to complain on.
Or perhaps even social taboos simply prohibited them from expressing such feelings in ANY form.
People are people, and in base instincts, we often can desire to see great enemies suffer and die. I ask, has this changed?
--
"First God made idiots. That was for practice. Then He made school boards." -Mark Twain
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:1)
by fishbowl (7759) Alter Relationship <jmcgill@email.ar ... u minus caffeine> on Friday May 18, @06:22PM (#19185645)
>How many of them could read and write?
Some fairly thorough studies of literacy rates were done by the Postal Service before and after the war. I am sure that you could find real data if you were interested. What I remember about it is that literacy rates for whites declined during the reconstruction period while literacy rates for blacks soared.
--
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by darkonc (47285) Alter Relationship <stephen_samuel@b ... .com minus berry> on Friday May 18, @04:52PM (#19184533)
(http://bcgreen.com/~samuel | Last Journal: Friday April 30, @03:42PM)
I'm not sure that that many Americans would actually cheer Bush's assassination. I can, however, see a large, collective sigh of relief. Unfortunately, It's quite possible that that sigh might be short-lived. I'm not at all convinced that 'shure-shot' Cheney would make a much better president than Bush. On the (somewhat) bright side, I doubt that he could be much worse.
--
Don't think that a small group of dedicated individuals can't change the world. it's the only thing that ever has.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:1)
by ral315 (741081) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:09PM (#19184737)
I disagree. Remember, the assassination is just 10 years removed from the time when a United States Representative beat another Representative [wikipedia.org] with a cane on the House floor. Over time, we tend to remember the good things and gloss over the bad.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by Martin Blank (154261) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:43PM (#19185249)
(Last Journal: Tuesday November 26, @08:28PM)
I'd watch CSPAN if there were a chance of this happening during debates now. Instead we either get $MAJORITY_PARTY bending the rules into pretzels to prevent the other side from getting their fair say, or we get both parties working together to further sweeten their little corners of the world.
--
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:4, Interesting)
by Hijacked Public (999535) * Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:14PM (#19184821)
Almost certainly plenty of people cheered Lincoln's death back then, they just weren't the people who wrote our history books.
Even today there are people who can make a convincing case that Lincoln was just as crooked and underhanded, if not more so, than Bush.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 19, @10:06AM (#19190465)
Too True - INSMHO, He was the worst thing to happen to the USA since its founding, and has since been used as an excuse for more "bas stuff"...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 19, @11:45AM (#19190947)
Even today there are people who can make a convincing case that Lincoln was just as crooked and underhanded, if not more so, than Bush.
Who? Now I'm curious. What sort of person would make such an assertion? And do they also believe that Taft was just as thin as Truman?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by Frostalicious (657235) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:18PM (#19184871)
(Last Journal: Monday March 31, @03:01PM)
I think partisanship and common decency have plunged to new depths
Why does partisanship have to have anything to do with one's hatred of someone? I would be pretty pleased if Bush got offed, for completely non-partisan reasons. I mean I don't even live in that so called country. I notice a disturbing trend where people, mostly in the US, misattribute all motivation to partisanship, which in itself appears to be partisan.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by Hatta (162192) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:23PM (#19184951)
(Last Journal: Monday November 28, @01:21PM)
I think it was a far more civilized time in many respects.
Such as their elegant weapons.
--
Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.
I'm offended by censorship.
Patriotism is akin to racism.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by e2d2 (115622) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:37PM (#19185167)
So if they try to actually kill the president back then it's a more civilized time and if they just voice their opinion today it's less civilized?
I'll take less civilized for 1000 Alex.
In all seriousness, Lincoln was far from loved then. This should be obvious by the fact that someone killed him and Booth was not alone in his conspiracy. Also, I bet if he traveled to say, Charleston South Carolina, his welcome would not have been friendly.
--
Nothing. I want nothing - Hunter S. Thompson
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by The One and Only (691315) Alter Relationship <phil@philwelch.net> on Friday May 18, @06:49PM (#19185959)
(http://philwelch.net/)
The CIvil War was a "more civilized time"? When one half of the country slaughtered countless thousands for the right to keep slaves and the other half of the country slaughtered countless thousands in order to keep in control of the other half? You're crazy.
--
Q. Are you being paid by the word? A. Indeed! Verily, I am!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by cp.tar (871488) Alter Relationship <cp.tar.bz2@gmail.com> on Friday May 18, @08:52PM (#19186929)
Well, you were doing it in your own back yard, not everywhere in the world...
--
EULA:
By reading this sig, you agree to any and all opinions stated in the above post.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by Daniel Dvorkin (106857) * Alter Relationship on Saturday May 19, @10:18AM (#19190501)
(http://www.sff.net/people/Daniel.Dvorkin | Last Journal: Wednesday April 04, @01:26PM)
I think it was a far more civilized time in many respects. For example, I think it's a pretty recent development that a non-trivial bloc of the population would actually cheer for the assassination of President Bush. Now, regardless of whether we agree with his policies, I find that pretty disgusting. I think partisanship and common decency have plunged to new depths just as human rights overall and quality of life have risen to great heights.
There was a pretty substantial bloc of the population that cheered Lincoln's assassination, you can be sure. And, in case you;ve forgotten, when Lincoln was shot, Americans had just got done with four years of mutual slaughter that cost more lives than all our other wars combined. 3400 dead in Iraq? Hell, in those days they could spend that quantity of blood in an hour. (And, of course, Europe was just beginning the political process that would lead them, in another couple of generations, to Verdun and the Somme, which made even Gettysburg look like a minor tiff.) The nineteenth century may have been a much more polite time, but in terms of concern for human life, we're paragons of virtue these days compared to our forebears.
--
Harry Turtledove recommends Dawn Crescent [dvorkin.com]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:5, Informative)
by OldeTimeGeek (725417) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:36PM (#19184307)
He absolutely did have security. The following is excerpted from the White House security review after an airplane landed in the White House grounds in 1994 (the whole report: http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/ustreas/usss/t1pubrp t.html [fas.org]).
By 1860, the bitter atmosphere arising from the discord between the northern and southern states had greatly increased the danger of political violence. As soon as Abraham Lincoln was chosen to be the Republican candidate for President that year, he began to receive numerous death threats. During the campaign, he was constantly surrounded by a phalanx of bodyguards. In at least one instance, one of these bodyguards was Alan Pinkerton, the founder of the celebrated detective agency.
Lincoln's security detail grew after he assumed the Presidency. He chafed under this protection and worried that it made him appear unmanly, but he ultimately conceded its necessity. Numerous Metropolitan Police were detailed to the Executive Mansion to serve as guards. Because Lincoln did not want the Executive Mansion to take on the characteristics of an armed camp, the guards inside the Mansion (the doormen) dressed in civilian clothes and concealed their firearms. Uniformed, armed sentries were posted at the gates to the grounds and at the doors to the Executive Mansion itself.
During the Civil War, the military helped protect the Mansion. When the conflict started, soldiers actually camped inside the Executive Mansion until Washington was adequately fortified. Even after the city was deemed secure, military units were often assigned to serve as guards there.
Troops also frequently accompanied Lincoln during his travels. Indeed, throughout the Civil War, no member of Lincoln's family left the White House grounds unescorted. Thus, they were the first White House occupants to receive extensive personal protection. An armed, plainclothes member of the Metropolitan Police regularly accompanied Mrs. Lincoln on her outings. Moreover, the White House doormen never lost sight of the Lincolns' son Tad, who was considered a target for kidnappers. By 1864, four Metropolitan Policemen were assigned to serve as President Lincoln's personal bodyguards. One of these men, responsible for protecting Lincoln at Ford Theater on the evening of April 14, 1865, was having a drink at a nearby saloon when John Wilkes Booth fatally wounded the President with a shot to the head.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by turbidostato (878842) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:26PM (#19185685)
"It's kind of astonishing to think that security around the President was so much less then"
[...]
"I wonder if they were just naive about security, or if perhaps it was a more genteel time in general."
"Then?" What do you mean by "then"? I thought Ronald Reagan was president *after* Lincoln, and I thought he was shouted almost within hand-range back then, hummm... about 1987.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by encoderer (1060616) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:36PM (#19185817)
Actually, it was 1981, not 1987, but that's beside the point.
If you want my opinion, this is the best argument yet against the nuts that say that the way to stop gun crime is to arm the civilians.
Ronald Reagan was surrounded by a dozen of the most highly trained armed bodyguards in the history of the world. Still, a man proved that if you're willing to risk your own life to take somebody else's, there's very little that can be done to effectively stop you. It makes the notion that less gun crime would occur because civilians could defend themselves sound just a little silly.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by Schemat1c (464768) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @09:41PM (#19187283)
(http://slashdot.org/)
If you want my opinion, this is the best argument yet against the nuts that say that the way to stop gun crime is to arm the civilians.
Nice try at starting a gun control argument you silly little troll.
--
"Nobody knows the age of the human race, but everybody agrees that it is old enough to know better." - Anonymous
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:1)
by heinousjay (683506) Alter Relationship on Saturday May 19, @05:03AM (#19189287)
(Last Journal: Friday June 23, @09:54PM)
Hey, look, the guy didn't kill Reagan. What do you know, he actually did fail. Don't let the facts get in the way of a clever argument, though.
--
Blah.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by hey! (33014) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:44PM (#19185905)
(http://kamthaka.blogspot.com/ | Last Journal: Wednesday March 30, @04:18PM)
Except during war, the President was much less powerful back then. For much of the nineteenth century, you could walk up to the White House, ring the bell, and hand your card over to the person who answered, and you'd have a good shot at meeting the President.
There was even a slight chance that the person who answered the bell might be the President.
Of course, Teddy Roosevelt changed the nature of the Presidency; made it much more assertive. Another change is technology which has an unlimited capacity to create irony. Once the telephone was invented, it became certain that an ordinary person could not get a meeting with the President. Every moment of the President's day could be filled with communication, making the President much more connected to a vast ocean of people, in which you are just one tiny fish.
It is true that they would have been much more security conscious during wartime. But in general it would have been very easy to assassinate the President before the twentieth century. In an era when the President was much more accessible, and which did not have metal detectors, if you cooked up a good enough story you probably could have done it right in the Oval Office. The only reason it wasn't done more often was that there were (a) the ratio of people to Presidents was smaller and (b) the President didn't matter as much.
--
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by ignavus (213578) Alter Relationship on Saturday May 19, @01:11AM (#19188379)
Yeah, nobody had assassinated a President before, but sovereign rulers had been the target of people with grievances before.
In fact, on Jan 30, 1835 a would-be assassin fired two pistols at President Andrew Jackson from close range. Jackson then actually beat the assailant with his walking stick, he was that close to the action. Fortunately, the pistols had misfired, else Jackson would have been the first US President to be be assassinated, not Lincoln.
So Lincoln was not the first serious attempt at assassination, just the first successful assassination.
--
Mien Bedreevssystem is beter as dien Bedreevssystem! (seen on Plattdot)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:5, Informative)
by lord_mike (567148) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:16PM (#19184007)
Lincoln was shot at several times... One time, he was walking around in a park and his hat suddenly flew off... When he picked it up, there was a bullet hole in it.
His wife was very nervous for his safety, but he refused any bodyguards of any type. When he was inaugurated, he was sneaked into Washington, literally under a cloak. Some local papers got a hold of that story and mocked him for being cowardly. So, he instead was very open and brazen, much to the chagrin of his Mary Todd, who worried herself sick over his safety.
Her greatest fear became reality that night at the theater.
Thanks,
Mike
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2, Insightful)
by Short Circuit (52384) * Alter Relationship <mikemol@gmail.com> on Friday May 18, @04:45PM (#19184423)
(http://rosettacode.org/ | Last Journal: Friday April 13, @12:00AM)
If Lincoln were President today, he'd be very unpopular with the Slashdot crowd. Slavery issues aside, he believed and acted in a manner that strengthened the federal government. He even ordered confedracy sympathizers in Maryland arrested prior to election day so that Maryland, the seat of power for the Federal government, wouldn't secede.
In other words, he ran what might have been the most oppressive federal government since the Alien and Sedition acts of World War I, entirely contrary to the spirit of the American colonies' secession from the British Empire.
You're saying nobody today would have made a serious attempt on his life?
--
Rosetta Code -- Building a Programmer's Rosetta Stone [rosettacode.org]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:1)
by Short Circuit (52384) * Alter Relationship <mikemol@gmail.com> on Friday May 18, @04:47PM (#19184453)
(http://rosettacode.org/ | Last Journal: Friday April 13, @12:00AM)
Erp...timeline error: s/since/prior to and following/
--
Rosetta Code -- Building a Programmer's Rosetta Stone [rosettacode.org]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by shark72 (702619) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:49PM (#19184487)
"If Lincoln were President today, he'd be very unpopular with the Slashdot crowd. Slavery issues aside, he believed and acted in a manner that strengthened the federal government. He even ordered confedracy sympathizers in Maryland arrested prior to election day so that Maryland, the seat of power for the Federal government, wouldn't secede."
Plus, there's the personal grooming issue. I think the relevant phrase on Slashdot would be "goatee considered harmful."
--
Always "interesting," never "insightful."
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by The One and Only (691315) Alter Relationship <phil@philwelch.net> on Friday May 18, @06:59PM (#19186073)
(http://philwelch.net/)
Are you kidding? Have you ever seen (or seen pictures of) Stallman, or Richie or Thompson? Most of us have bearded heroes.
--
Q. Are you being paid by the word? A. Indeed! Verily, I am!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @07:19PM (#19186285)
Plus, there's the personal grooming issue. I think the relevant phrase on Slashdot would be "goatse considered harmful."
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by eln (21727) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:55PM (#19184571)
You're saying nobody today would have made a serious attempt on his life?
What I meant by that is that security might have been so tight around him that no one would be able to get close enough to make a serious attempt at his life, not that there wouldn't be people who wanted to do so. George W. Bush is not very well liked these days, and there are probably plenty of people who want to kill him, but to date no serious attempt has been made. Maybe this is because nobody wants to see Cheney sitting in the Oval Office, but I'm sure the unprecedented security also has something to do with it.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:1)
by Short Circuit (52384) * Alter Relationship <mikemol@gmail.com> on Friday May 18, @05:11PM (#19184763)
(http://rosettacode.org/ | Last Journal: Friday April 13, @12:00AM)
I don't know why on Earth I can't find a link to it now, but someone once flew a small prop plane into the Oval Office during Clinton's Presidency. I remember seeing it on the news a long while back.
--
Rosetta Code -- Building a Programmer's Rosetta Stone [rosettacode.org]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by autocracy (192714) Alter Relationship <slashdot2007@NoSpam.storyinmemo.com> on Friday May 18, @05:55PM (#19185373)
(http://storyinmemo.com/)
Yeah, it crashed on the front lawn of the Whitehouse, to the left side. I don't believe it actually impacted the building, but was rather very close to it.
--
SIG: HUP
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by autocracy (192714) Alter Relationship <slashdot2007@NoSpam.storyinmemo.com> on Friday May 18, @05:57PM (#19185405)
(http://storyinmemo.com/)
Ah, here we go:
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V114/N40/crash.40w.html [mit.edu]
http://www.geocities.com/roboplanes/cessna.html [geocities.com]
http://www.fas.org/irp/agency/ustreas/usss/t1pubrp t.html [fas.org]
--
SIG: HUP
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:1)
by operagost (62405) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:31PM (#19185081)
(http://operagost.com/ | Last Journal: Monday May 01, @01:08PM)
You'd have to step around a bunch of sheep poop, too. They used to graze animals on the lawn.
--
Gamingmuseum.com [gamingmuseum.com]: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:1)
by WrongMonkey (1027334) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:48PM (#19185951)
Lincoln had as much protections as was possible in that day. Someone being able to walk up to the White House would have been ridiculous even then.
John Wilkes Booth was able to get that close to Lincoln because he was a famous actor. Sure a regular joe wouldn't be able to get within 30 yards of a president today, but the same was true then. OTOH, if George Clooney decided to kill Bush he would have a good chance of getting past security.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by fucksl4shd0t (630000) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @10:48PM (#19187667)
(http://www.davefancella.com/ | Last Journal: Wednesday December 31, @03:21AM)
No, I think this article is more like "Think of the really awesome people in history who died prematurely. We can save people like that, now!"
I'm sure Kirk will be pleased.
--
Like what I said? You might like my musi [davefancella.com]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
#
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @04:01PM (#19183753)
I think the question of "potency" in this case needs to be evaluated from various angles. Are the firearms today producing better single shots or just the ability to fire more rounds? Perhaps both but in a lot of ways the point is kind of moot since Booth chose a weapon that, even in it's time, was fairly inappropriate. It makes you wonder why Booth decided on his firearm. Was it a matter or access? Probably not since firearms were less regulated at the time. We know the attack was planned so it's not a matter of having time to arm himself. And considering the bulkiness of the firearm I find it hard to believe it was a question of it being concealable.
Maybe FWB was just that incompetent. Maybe a single shot from a modern firearm in the hands of FWB would have done just the same thing and he was a poor marksman or unknowledgable in forensics/ballistics. I know, at point blank poor marksmanship seems inconceivable but there is a lot of it that goes around.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by oldmacdonald (80995) Alter Relationship <`moc.mbi.nostaw' `ta' `niloms'> on Friday May 18, @04:07PM (#19183873)
So, if FWB was more competent, he would have killed Lincoln more?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by Johnny5000 (451029) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:25PM (#19184145)
(http://slashdot.org/)
So, if FWB was more competent, he would have killed Lincoln more?
That depends.. Who is FWB supposed to be?
FJohn Wilkes Booth?
--
Food is free for the taking for every other animal on earth, except humans (in our culture.)
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by oldmacdonald (80995) Alter Relationship <`moc.mbi.nostaw' `ta' `niloms'> on Friday May 18, @04:33PM (#19184263)
D'oh. Maybe if the AC I replied to had just used the preview button....
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @05:29PM (#19185055)
it's fantastic to blame the ac for your mistakes. how does it feel to be a lemming?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 19, @03:09AM (#19188821)
Who is FWB supposed to be? FJohn Wilkes Booth?
Perchance that beeth the olde spellinge
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:5, Funny)
by gad_zuki! (70830) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:08PM (#19183885)
(http://everythingisnt.com/ | Last Journal: Sunday October 27, @12:59AM)
If this happened today Lincoln would have been prescribed prozac at 15, lightened up, and become a full-time circus clown. Mary Todd, would just be called Todd after the gender-reassignment and Booth would have made it in Hollywood and become another eccentric scientologist and could take his aggression out of people who leave the church. Happy Endings for all!
--
"It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea." -Robert Anton Wilson
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @04:08PM (#19183891)
Bah! Prove it. Take a president (use your imagination!) and do a test shot with a muzzle loading pistol and see if they can patch him up. It would all be in the name of science of course.
Don't let Cheney do it though, he'll shoot him in the face.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:1)
by teflonscout (302958) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:12PM (#19183939)
But could we save Kennedy? Just kidding, on a more technical note, there are tons of cool new toys for medics and trauma doctors. I have been amazed by how slowly emergency rooms are adopting chitosan bandages [wired.com] like HemCon despite their proven effectiveness in Iraq. Pretty soon we may be able to use hydrogen sulfide to put people into suspended animation for very long surgeries.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by ookabooka (731013) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:26PM (#19184163)
And, as pointed out in the article, the weapon used then was relatively impotent. Would it not be safe to consider that if the assassination were committed today the assassin likely would have also used updated technology (i.e., something more, ahem, potent)?
Ok, I think you're missing the point. Ever think about Apollo 13 and wish you could go back in time with your PDA give it to NASA because it could have replaced the on board computer (using an emulator running under Java while you were playing chess against it) and had its own independent power supply (2x AA's) that would last the whole trip? Or what about giving just Napoleon a single tank that can easily run on kerosene which was readily available back then. Yes technology has come far and people always think about how things used to be and how far we've come. This is just another example of us humans not taking something for granted and realizing how far our technological advances have carried us.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @06:38PM (#19185841)
The last thing I would want is to have my spaceship run by a PDA's computer. They'll lock up if you fart too loudly or think impure thoughts.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by Bonker (243350) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:29PM (#19184217)
(http://www.furinkan.net/ | Last Journal: Tuesday October 15, @12:35PM)
The ultimate point of these conferences is not to propose sci-fi 'what if' scenarios. Nor is it an indictment of archaic medical procedure. Instead, they're more to improve the current body of medical knowledge by applying modern science to archaic, but well-documented cases.
Leale, Lincoln's surgeon, made a number of choices on how to treat his patient given the best science of the time. These included heating Lincoln's body with hot water bottles to try to prevent shock and removing the from his brain with a probe.
Even with EXACTLY the same instruments available to Leale (say to a squad of paramedics or a field team of secret service medics), it's advisable to make a slightly different set of choices on how to treat the injury with today's knowledge.
In particular, more attention would be paid to keeping the patient's blood pressure up via fluid infusion or blood transfusion. The bullet would also be left in place to avoid aggravating the injuries it caused.
Assassination attempts happen, even for the stupidest of reasonsjodie foster. This particular exercise helps modern medical professionals understand the situation better than they might have when facing a similar scenario.
--
The next Slashdot story will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush and slashdot the links early!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by linguizic (806996) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:01PM (#19184677)
(http://improbableuniverse.blogspot.com/)
I'm waiting for an article to come out saying that the report showing that Lincoln was shot by one gun is false.
--
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by treeves (963993) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:36PM (#19185143)
(http://slashdot.org/~treeves/ | Last Journal: Friday August 25, @03:51PM)
Well...Kennedy had a Press Secretary named Lincoln, and Lincoln had a secretary named Kennedy, and...
--
Never express yourself more clearly than you think. -- Niels Bohr
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:1)
by bocin (886008) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @09:09PM (#19187055)
Handguns are more powerful today. Perhaps Booth would have had more than one shot.... Off goes old Abes head....Fix that!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:2)
by russotto (537200) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @09:41PM (#19187279)
I don't know that a modern small pistol firing .25ACP would be any less potent than the weapon Booth used, a .44 derringer.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:so, what this article is saying is...
(Score:1)
by BrGaribaldi (710238) Alter Relationship on Saturday May 19, @02:29PM (#19192101)
(http://www.thisisdark.com/)
Why is this news? In another 150 years the technology level will most likely be such that most deaths, back in Lincoln's time and in ours, can and will be prevented. Do you think they'll still be dealing with cancer and AIDS 150 years from now? Heart disease, clogged arteries...all these things will be cured. Wired has even run articles saying old age will be cured before too long. And as far as trauma goes, just think about Star Trek IV. Bones called modern medicine the "Dark Ages". I certainly hope that is exactly what they are saying about us 150 years from now. Shouldn't this kind of thing just be expected?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Yes, but...
(Score:1)
by SkunkWorx (662057) Alter Relationship <skunkworxNO@SPAMkingwoodcable.com> on Friday May 18, @03:44PM (#19183465)
(http://www.skunkworx.org/)
...what kind of gun would he have been shot with had today's technology been around? Certainly not one that was "relatively impotent compared to the firepower now on the streets today."
[ Reply to This ]
And not to mention
(Score:4, Funny)
by User 956 (568564) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:57PM (#19183699)
(http://www.atomjax.com/)
...what kind of gun would he have been shot with had today's technology been around?
and don't forget, they didn't even have the catcher in the rye back then.
--
AtomJax: Sciencey Stuff for Sciencey People [atomjax.com].
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Interesting Thought
(Score:2)
by MyLongNickName (822545) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:44PM (#19183467)
(Last Journal: Saturday October 14, @09:12AM)
Yeah... but what if he'd been shot with a modern gun?
[ Reply to This ]
Re:Interesting Thought
(Score:2)
by The_Rook (136658) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:52PM (#19183617)
best comparison might be to when ronald reagan was shot.
--
when religion is no longer the opiate of the masses, governments will resort to real opiates.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Interesting Thought
(Score:1)
by Wog (58146) Alter Relationship on Saturday May 19, @01:21AM (#19188431)
(Last Journal: Friday March 16, @07:07PM)
Reagan was shot with a Röhm RG-14, a .22 revolver.
I own one just like it. It belonged to my grandfather. It is an absolutely worthless piece of junk, and I never shoot it when I go to the range. When the cylinder doesn't completely lock up, the fall of the hammer often fails to ignite the round. When the gun does actually fire, the barrel is of such poor quality that the bullet often tumbles within 10 yards, leaving a boat-shaped hole in the paper target a heck of a long way away from the point of aim. The only reason I keep the trash gun is because of the family history behind it.
Hinckley also used the powerful-sounding but poorly designed "Devastator" bullets, which were marketed as bullets that "explode" on impact. Rubbish. I've read reports about these bullets fired into ballistics gel as well as wet phone books, and have never seen any result other than the bullets tumbling and breaking up into small, low-velocity pieces, often before hitting the target. None of the rounds fired by Hinckley actually exploded, though it appears that they managed to stay in one piece well enough to very seriously wound Brady. Reagan's wound was from a bullet fragment that bounced off the glass of his limousine and impacted him in the chest.
So no, not a good example of modern weaponry. Maybe an example of extremely poor choice in weaponry (thankfully!) or perhaps an extremely tight budget. Maybe Hinckley was saving his pennies for the honeymoon with Jodie...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
.25 auto would have bounced off his skull.
(Score:1, Offtopic)
by HornWumpus (783565) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:53PM (#19183641)
Not all modern weapons are any good. Some are damn near useless.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:.25 auto would have bounced off his skull.
(Score:2)
by JesseL (107722) Alter Relationship <jesselambert@NospAM.gmail.com> on Friday May 18, @04:08PM (#19183883)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Saturday April 21, @02:07PM)
You do know that the 25ACP is nearly 100 years old now, right? (Of course the same goes for 45ACP and 9mm Luger)
--
"All you really own is whatever you can carry in two hands at a dead run." -RAH
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:.25 auto would have bounced off his skull.
(Score:2)
by bhsurfer (539137) Alter Relationship <bhsurfer.gmail@com> on Friday May 18, @04:17PM (#19184033)
Another appx 100-year-older is the not-so-ineffective 30-06. One of those puppies will put a definite plot twist into any play.
--
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
Groucho Marx
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
They have changed a lot in 100+ years
(Score:2)
by IdahoEv (195056) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:12PM (#19185525)
(http://www.idahoev.com/)
.45ACP and 9mm luger are both around a century old, but only in the sense of the specified dimensions. (9x19 luger is 106 years old, in fact.)
Modern rounds can be packed to much higher pressures (a modern 9mm +P+ round packs a much bigger wallop than a 1898 9mm luger round) of faster-burning propellant.
Not to mention expanding bullets. Hollow- and soft-point bullets were invented about 30 years after the Lincoln assassination, and have been improved since then. Polymer-filled expanders are much more recent. Expanding bullets make a dramatic difference in wounding potential.
--
I stole this sig from someone cleverer than me.
IdahoEv's Rant [idahoev.com]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:They have changed a lot in 100+ years
(Score:2)
by JesseL (107722) Alter Relationship <jesselambert@NospAM.gmail.com> on Friday May 18, @07:09PM (#19186169)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Saturday April 21, @02:07PM)
Agreed. I just wanted to point out that calling the .25ACP "modern" is a bit of a stretch unless you adopt an unusual definition of modern.
There aren't a whole lot of cartridge designs (as opposed to loadings) I would consider modern. I have firearms in 19 different chamberings and the only one I can think of that is less than 40 years old is the .40S&W.
--
"All you really own is whatever you can carry in two hands at a dead run." -RAH
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:They have changed a lot in 100+ years
(Score:2)
by russotto (537200) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @10:04PM (#19187397)
"Modern" in terms of firearm ammo pretty much just means it's cartridge ammo with some form of smokeless powder as propellant. Another possible meaning would be "in common use today", but that still includes the lowly .25 ACP. Booth used a rather low-powered weapon for his day, for the same reason he'd use one today -- size and weight. I haven't seen anything which said the bullet actually penetrated his skull (though it did crack his eye socket); he was shot in the back of the head, so it may have gone in under the skull.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:They have changed a lot in 100+ years
(Score:2)
by JesseL (107722) Alter Relationship <jesselambert@NospAM.gmail.com> on Saturday May 19, @12:30AM (#19188201)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Saturday April 21, @02:07PM)
Hmmm, I've gotta disagree with both of your definition for "modern ammunition". I can think of several cartridges in common use, loaded with smokeless powder, that very few people would call modern. Do you consider .30 WCF(.30-30), .45-70 Govt, .303 British, 7.62x54R Russian, or .44-40 WCF to be modern? Most of them have been updated to some degree with newer propellants or projectiles and they work at least as well as they ever did but to call them modern is to disregard the advances that have been made in cartridge technology in more recent years.
Your definitions seem kind of like claiming that the Chevrolet small-block OHV V8 is a modern engine, or the Intel x86 is a modern microprocessor architecture.
--
"All you really own is whatever you can carry in two hands at a dead run." -RAH
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:.25 auto would have bounced off his skull.
(Score:2)
by hal2814 (725639) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:25PM (#19184153)
And if he had tried to use one of today's plastic spatulas, it would've been no match for yesteryear's metal variety. I do assume an assassin would use some a bit more appropriate for assassination though.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Interesting Thought
(Score:2)
by MyLongNickName (822545) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:44PM (#19183467)
(Last Journal: Saturday October 14, @09:12AM)
Yeah... but what if he'd been shot with a modern gun?
[ Reply to This ]
Re:Interesting Thought
(Score:2)
by The_Rook (136658) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:52PM (#19183617)
best comparison might be to when ronald reagan was shot.
--
when religion is no longer the opiate of the masses, governments will resort to real opiates.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Interesting Thought
(Score:1)
by Wog (58146) Alter Relationship on Saturday May 19, @01:21AM (#19188431)
(Last Journal: Friday March 16, @07:07PM)
Reagan was shot with a Röhm RG-14, a .22 revolver.
I own one just like it. It belonged to my grandfather. It is an absolutely worthless piece of junk, and I never shoot it when I go to the range. When the cylinder doesn't completely lock up, the fall of the hammer often fails to ignite the round. When the gun does actually fire, the barrel is of such poor quality that the bullet often tumbles within 10 yards, leaving a boat-shaped hole in the paper target a heck of a long way away from the point of aim. The only reason I keep the trash gun is because of the family history behind it.
Hinckley also used the powerful-sounding but poorly designed "Devastator" bullets, which were marketed as bullets that "explode" on impact. Rubbish. I've read reports about these bullets fired into ballistics gel as well as wet phone books, and have never seen any result other than the bullets tumbling and breaking up into small, low-velocity pieces, often before hitting the target. None of the rounds fired by Hinckley actually exploded, though it appears that they managed to stay in one piece well enough to very seriously wound Brady. Reagan's wound was from a bullet fragment that bounced off the glass of his limousine and impacted him in the chest.
So no, not a good example of modern weaponry. Maybe an example of extremely poor choice in weaponry (thankfully!) or perhaps an extremely tight budget. Maybe Hinckley was saving his pennies for the honeymoon with Jodie...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
.25 auto would have bounced off his skull.
(Score:1, Offtopic)
by HornWumpus (783565) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:53PM (#19183641)
Not all modern weapons are any good. Some are damn near useless.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:.25 auto would have bounced off his skull.
(Score:2)
by JesseL (107722) Alter Relationship <jesselambert@NospAM.gmail.com> on Friday May 18, @04:08PM (#19183883)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Saturday April 21, @02:07PM)
You do know that the 25ACP is nearly 100 years old now, right? (Of course the same goes for 45ACP and 9mm Luger)
--
"All you really own is whatever you can carry in two hands at a dead run." -RAH
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:.25 auto would have bounced off his skull.
(Score:2)
by bhsurfer (539137) Alter Relationship <bhsurfer.gmail@com> on Friday May 18, @04:17PM (#19184033)
Another appx 100-year-older is the not-so-ineffective 30-06. One of those puppies will put a definite plot twist into any play.
--
Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
Groucho Marx
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
They have changed a lot in 100+ years
(Score:2)
by IdahoEv (195056) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:12PM (#19185525)
(http://www.idahoev.com/)
.45ACP and 9mm luger are both around a century old, but only in the sense of the specified dimensions. (9x19 luger is 106 years old, in fact.)
Modern rounds can be packed to much higher pressures (a modern 9mm +P+ round packs a much bigger wallop than a 1898 9mm luger round) of faster-burning propellant.
Not to mention expanding bullets. Hollow- and soft-point bullets were invented about 30 years after the Lincoln assassination, and have been improved since then. Polymer-filled expanders are much more recent. Expanding bullets make a dramatic difference in wounding potential.
--
I stole this sig from someone cleverer than me.
IdahoEv's Rant [idahoev.com]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:They have changed a lot in 100+ years
(Score:2)
by JesseL (107722) Alter Relationship <jesselambert@NospAM.gmail.com> on Friday May 18, @07:09PM (#19186169)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Saturday April 21, @02:07PM)
Agreed. I just wanted to point out that calling the .25ACP "modern" is a bit of a stretch unless you adopt an unusual definition of modern.
There aren't a whole lot of cartridge designs (as opposed to loadings) I would consider modern. I have firearms in 19 different chamberings and the only one I can think of that is less than 40 years old is the .40S&W.
--
"All you really own is whatever you can carry in two hands at a dead run." -RAH
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:They have changed a lot in 100+ years
(Score:2)
by russotto (537200) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @10:04PM (#19187397)
"Modern" in terms of firearm ammo pretty much just means it's cartridge ammo with some form of smokeless powder as propellant. Another possible meaning would be "in common use today", but that still includes the lowly .25 ACP. Booth used a rather low-powered weapon for his day, for the same reason he'd use one today -- size and weight. I haven't seen anything which said the bullet actually penetrated his skull (though it did crack his eye socket); he was shot in the back of the head, so it may have gone in under the skull.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:They have changed a lot in 100+ years
(Score:2)
by JesseL (107722) Alter Relationship <jesselambert@NospAM.gmail.com> on Saturday May 19, @12:30AM (#19188201)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Saturday April 21, @02:07PM)
Hmmm, I've gotta disagree with both of your definition for "modern ammunition". I can think of several cartridges in common use, loaded with smokeless powder, that very few people would call modern. Do you consider .30 WCF(.30-30), .45-70 Govt, .303 British, 7.62x54R Russian, or .44-40 WCF to be modern? Most of them have been updated to some degree with newer propellants or projectiles and they work at least as well as they ever did but to call them modern is to disregard the advances that have been made in cartridge technology in more recent years.
Your definitions seem kind of like claiming that the Chevrolet small-block OHV V8 is a modern engine, or the Intel x86 is a modern microprocessor architecture.
--
"All you really own is whatever you can carry in two hands at a dead run." -RAH
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:.25 auto would have bounced off his skull.
(Score:2)
by hal2814 (725639) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:25PM (#19184153)
And if he had tried to use one of today's plastic spatulas, it would've been no match for yesteryear's metal variety. I do assume an assassin would use some a bit more appropriate for assassination though.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
What's the fuss
(Score:2)
by tsa (15680) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:45PM (#19183477)
(http://www.willemtjerkstra.nl/)
Yes, if the medical technologies and treatments we have today were developed earlier they could have saved people who are now dead. Isn't that obvious??!
--
-- There. I said it.
[ Reply to This ]
Re:What's the fuss
(Score:5, Funny)
by Applekid (993327) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:51PM (#19183593)
I'd be more impressed if modern science managed to bring Lincoln back from the dead. ;)
--
Code so secure it can imbibe fruity drinks with paper umbrellas and not let snickers of other modules get to him.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:What's the fuss
(Score:1)
by uberjoe (726765) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:18PM (#19184037)
Dear Applekid,
Just wait. We are working on it.
Sincerely,
The Raëlians [wikipedia.org]
--
The days of the digital watch are numbered.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:What's the fuss
(Score:2)
by acidrain69 (632468) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:59PM (#19183739)
(Last Journal: Tuesday May 16, @11:41PM)
Obvious, yes. I think the real story here is that this is what medical geeks do in their spare time; apply their trade to historic events in a what-if scenario.
--
-- get your stickers out of my science book. I don't paste crap in your bible [ed: we won]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
similar studies?
(Score:5, Interesting)
by emc (19333) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:46PM (#19183487)
do they have similar presentations at conferences, like how the civil war would have ended if the south had stealth bombers... and how Hannibal would have done if he had a fleet of Hummers with 50cal BMGs?
[ Reply to This ]
Re:similar studies?
(Score:3, Funny)
by greenguy (162630) Alter Relationship <steveh AT greens DOT org> on Friday May 18, @04:06PM (#19183853)
(http://justthings.info/ | Last Journal: Saturday December 09, @06:17AM)
What if Frodo had had a spaceship with an Improbability Drive?
--
We had to go and live in a lake!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:similar studies?
(Score:4, Interesting)
by aktzin (882293) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:21PM (#19184073)
Your comment reminded me of this funny "what if...?" look at Lord of the Rings:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnUvw1rzziE [youtube.com]
--
Quantum mechanics: the dreams that stuff is made of.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:similar studies?
(Score:2)
by bryan1945 (301828) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @07:30PM (#19186397)
(Last Journal: Friday February 18, @11:45PM)
Excellent! But were the heck did Gollum come from?
--
I want to own a monkey. Or a Congressman. Not much difference.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:similar studies?
(Score:2)
by e2d2 (115622) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:24PM (#19184985)
You laugh, but one day we will be able to travel through time, even back to the time of Frodo.
--
Nothing. I want nothing - Hunter S. Thompson
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
similar patents?
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @04:07PM (#19183859)
Considering Lincoln had a patent (the only one to have one). History would have been different.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:similar patents?
(Score:1)
by notamisfit (995619) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @10:26PM (#19187535)
Wonder if he'd be suing Richard Stallman for beard infringement...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:similar studies?
(Score:2)
by Hoi Polloi (522990) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:11PM (#19183933)
I remember an early SNL episode that had Kirk Douglas in a skit called "What if Spartacus Had a Piper Cub?"
--
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:similar studies?
(Score:2)
by Jonathan_S (25407) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:44PM (#19184413)
do they have similar presentations at conferences, like how the civil war would have ended if the south had stealth bombers... and how Hannibal would have done if he had a fleet of Hummers with 50cal BMGs?
Well, first thing the Hummers would run out of fuel...
OTOH he did get Eliphants across the alps, I guess he could get Hummers into Italy. (Tow them behind the eliphant if nothing else). Not sure why you'd bother. The 50cal BMG would certainly kill plenty of Romans, while the ammo lasted.
But Hannibal's problem was never killing Roman soldiers. It was that he didn't have the people or logistics to beseige Rome (and force a surrender), nor the force to storm the city.
Giving him a couple of trucks of MREs would probably change history more than machine guns.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:similar studies?
(Score:2)
by Lars T. (470328) Alter Relationship <Lars,Traeger&googlemail,com> on Friday May 18, @04:45PM (#19184417)
(Last Journal: Tuesday May 15, @05:19PM)
do they have similar presentations at conferences, like how the civil war would have ended if the south had stealth bombers... and how Hannibal would have done if he had a fleet of Hummers with 50cal BMGs?
Then he would have never passed the alps, for Hummers suck in the mountains.
--
Lars T.
Those who tout the greatness of their nation seldom contribute to it.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:similar studies?
(Score:2)
by Nimey (114278) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:54PM (#19184549)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday August 29, @07:44PM)
Harry Turtledove wrote a book (Guns of the South) that had Afrikaners go back in time and give the Confederacy AK-47s.
No, I refuse to read it.
--
Hail Eris, full of mischief...
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:similar studies?
(Score:2)
by bill_mcgonigle (4333) * Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:02PM (#19185435)
(http://blog.bfccomputing.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday February 06, @05:50PM)
Harry Turtledove wrote a book (Guns of the South) that had Afrikaners go back in time and give the Confederacy AK-47s.
They had a White Power Time Machine and the best they could come up with was to hand out some guns?
No, I refuse to read it.
Prudent call.
--
My God, it's Full of Source!
Pick One: Global Warming, Agrarian Society, Nuclear Energy. - http://strongforce.org
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:similar studies?
(Score:2)
by R3d M3rcury (871886) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @08:31PM (#19186819)
(Last Journal: Friday May 04, @09:30PM)
And what if Lincoln had been armed and able to fire back [xs4all.nl]?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:similar studies?
(Score:1)
by zitch (1019110) Alter Relationship <slashdot@forum.nickistre@net> on Saturday May 19, @12:22AM (#19188163)
(http://www.nickistre.net/)
Lincoln shot first! [starslipcrisis.com]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:similar studies?
(Score:2)
by ChrisMaple (607946) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @11:04PM (#19187747)
30 or 40 years ago in Analog there was a story with a title like "Hawk among the Doves" about a modern jet fighter transported in time back to WWI. The fighter's heat and radar guided missiles were useless against wooden airplanes, and it was hard to get enough pure kerosene to fuel it. They finally used the sonic boom to break up the wooden aircraft.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:similar studies?
(Score:2)
by belmolis (702863) Alter Relationship <{ude.tim.mula} {ta} {resopllib}> on Saturday May 19, @05:56AM (#19189513)
(http://billposer.org/)
I'm having trouble with this. Granted, the guidance systems of the missiles wouldn't work on old wooden planes, but the 20mm cannon of the jet fighters would be quite effective against both the planes themselves and their pilots.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Truly A Miracle
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @03:46PM (#19183493)
Did they also have a cure for being 198 years old?
[ Reply to This ]
Re:Truly A Miracle
(Score:2)
by eclectro (227083) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:14PM (#19183969)
More importamtly, could he get elected again wearing that stovepipe hat of his?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Truly A Miracle
(Score:2)
by geekoid (135745) Alter Relationship <dadinportland@ya ... .com minus punct> on Friday May 18, @04:20PM (#19184061)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Thursday February 21, @05:37PM)
Yes...assuming it shoots buckets of money at voters.
--
his mind is not for rent, to god or government. - Rush, the musicians, not the fat tard.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Ba-dum-bum
(Score:3, Insightful)
by Bobb Sledd (307434) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:46PM (#19183495)
(http://www.zerion.com/)
...Is that because you don't need a brain to be president?
Of course... it could also be said that "modern security could have prevented the weapon being anywhere near the president in the first place."
--
"whose members were like those of donkeys, and whose emission was like that of stallions." [Ezekiel 23:20]
[ Reply to This ]
And...
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @03:46PM (#19183501)
And if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride.
[ Reply to This ]
In other news...
(Score:0)
by Wolvie MkM (661535) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:46PM (#19183505)
... the sky is blue and bears defecate in the woods...
--
I Like Pie...
[ Reply to This ]
So and so and so
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @03:47PM (#19183527)
What!?
[ Reply to This ]
If only!
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @03:48PM (#19183531)
The modern prognosis predicts that Lincoln might have conceivably recovered enough to return to the White House to complete his second term.
Hopefully, to be impeached and convicted for his blatant circumventions of the Constitution.
[ Reply to This ]
Worthless.
(Score:4, Insightful)
by SatanicPuppy (611928) * Alter Relationship <Satanicpuppy@@@gmail...com> on Friday May 18, @03:48PM (#19183533)
(Last Journal: Tuesday December 19, @06:12PM)
And future medicine might have brought him back from the dead, able to play piano and fly! Or maybe not. No medicine might have saved George Washington, instead of the leeches.
Such pointless speculation. Yes, obviously better medical care could have saved a lot of people. How about "Modern Medicine Could Have Prevented Black Plague!" Maybe, "85% of amputations during the civil war wouldn't have occurred with modern surgery!" Seriously, I can keep this up all day...
--
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
[ Reply to This ]
Re:Worthless.
(Score:5, Insightful)
by spun (1352) Alter Relationship <(loverevolutionary) (at) (yahoo.com)> on Friday May 18, @03:52PM (#19183621)
(Last Journal: Thursday May 17, @11:59AM)
I think the point of the study wasn't that modern medicine could have saved him, it's how it could have. Anyone could come along and say, "oh yeah, modern medicine would have saved him." It takes someone with more experience than the peanut gallery here on Slashdot to explain how.
--
- You wanted an argument? Oh, I'm sorry, but this is abuse, you want room 12A, just along the corridor. Stupid git.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Worthless.
(Score:2)
by SatanicPuppy (611928) * Alter Relationship <Satanicpuppy@@@gmail...com> on Friday May 18, @04:27PM (#19184165)
(Last Journal: Tuesday December 19, @06:12PM)
Sure, I read it, but I still wasn't impressed. It was all very speculative. I'd be much more interested in a case study where the doctors actually worked on someone, where they discuss what did and did not go according to plan.
This is just a little splash mongering, trying to drum up some page views by applying modern medicine to historic injuries, without any knowledge of complications that we are now able to recognize, which doctors of the time period were not able to recognize.
--
ad logicam Claiming a proposition is false because it was presented as the conclusion of a fallacious argument.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Worthless.
(Score:1)
by chevelle496 (1058560) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:52PM (#19184525)
Exactly. I think it is a useful exercise. It puts a historical spin on a common approach to teaching medicine (case studies/problem based learning), making it a bit more interesting. Believe me, after you have heard the 100th case presentation about Mr. X, who presents to the ER with X complaint...thinking about how to treat Mr. Lincoln with today's technology would be a welcome respite.
I look at it as not so much "would he have done better," but thinking about how we would actually care for Mr. Lincoln with what we have available now for head trauma - early airway management, prevention of hyperventilation, active cooling, etc.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
leeches!
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @04:15PM (#19183985)
How dare you disparage leeches?? They come to us on the highest recommendation of Dr. Hoffmann of Stuttgart! The great Hoffman! Owner of the largest leech-farm in Europe!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
George Washington might have been saved...
(Score:2)
by Nick Driver (238034) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:16PM (#19184009)
No medicine might have saved George Washington, instead of the leeches.
The deliberate blood draining definitely killed any chance he would've had to recover... but important to note that there *was* medicine available back then that could've probably gone a long way towards healing his epiglotitis/throat infection... golden seal root was well-known by Native Americans, as well as colonial folk medicine in the 1700-1800's, to have healing powers for infections. And indeed modern science has shown it to have some fairly strong antibiotic capabilities. I've used it myself for sinus infections and strep throat, and it definitely works. Not quite as good as modern prescription antibiotics, but good enough for me.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Worthless.
(Score:2)
by Hoi Polloi (522990) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:20PM (#19184059)
Abraham Lincoln, president. A man barely alive.
Gentlemen, we can rebuild him. We have the technology. We have the capability to make the world's first bionic man. President Lincoln will be that man. Better than he was before. Better...stronger...faster.
*Doo doo dee dahhhhh*
The only catch is that all of his implants are steam powered.
--
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Worthless.
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @04:27PM (#19184171)
Modern sanitation (NOT Medicine) would have prevented the Black Plague.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Worthless.
(Score:2)
by CrazyTalk (662055) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:57PM (#19184605)
Its called using your imagination. Sometimes that can be fun.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
And if I were him...
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @03:48PM (#19183545)
I'd have preferred to die. Being 198 years old would not be fun.
[ Reply to This ]
*sigh*
(Score:2)
by Applekid (993327) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:49PM (#19183551)
In other news, life expectancy is no longer 50, bloodletting is no longer a recommended medical treatment, and witches do, in fact, sink when tied to large stones and thrown into water.
Anyone get the impression that calling a gun used in an assassination 150 years ago impotent compared to today's weapons is just another salvo launched from the anti-gun crowd?
--
Code so secure it can imbibe fruity drinks with paper umbrellas and not let snickers of other modules get to him.
[ Reply to This ]
Re:*sigh*
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @04:18PM (#19184035)
Anyone get the impression that calling a gun used in an assassination 150 years ago impotent compared to today's weapons is just another salvo launched from the anti-gun crowd?
I hadn't even considered that until you brought it up. My first reaction was that that notion is just silly.
Then I thought about again a little more.
Nope. Still just silly.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:*sigh*
(Score:2)
by jedidiah (1196) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:47PM (#19184451)
(http://penguin.lvcm.com/)
Something that occured to me when the anti-gun crowd started whining about Virginia Tech is how Carribean pirates managed to wreak havoc on unarmed civilians with nothing more than single shot pistols and long knives. A determine attacker will figure out how to use whatever technology he has to maximum effect.
It doesn't matter if the range is 10 feet or 1000 yards.
It doesn't matter if the magazine holds 10 rounds or if it's a flintlock.
It might not even matter much what caliber the bullets are.
In one of the stallone movies, the main bad guy managed to be pretty menacing with a breech loaded pistol.
--
WinDOS: The nature of Microsoft engineering still resides within XP.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:*sigh*
(Score:2)
by Oktober Sunset (838224) Alter Relationship <`sdpage103' `at' `yahoo.co.uk'> on Friday May 18, @06:48PM (#19185957)
ok, virgina tech with a muzzle loaded pistol.
Gunman goes into class, shoots 1 kid, now what happens next, A) rest of class sit silently for 2 minutes while he reloads his pistol and shoots the next kid. B) Everyone pounces on the guy and kicks his ass.
--
Freedom Forever!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
What about leeches?
(Score:2)
by technoextreme (885694) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:23PM (#19184119)
In other news, life expectancy is no longer 50, bloodletting is no longer a recommended medical treatment, and witches do, in fact, sink when tied to large stones and thrown into water.
Interestingly enough leeches today are a recommended treatment for amputees.
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Ooo man the floppy drive is broken. No wait. The computer is just upside down.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Such a shame...
(Score:3, Funny)
by clem (5683) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:49PM (#19183567)
(http://outintheblack.blogspot.com/)
If only cryogenic resurrection centers had existed at that time we might still have Lincoln with us today.
--
Your credit card information wants to be free.
[ Reply to This ]
Re:Such a shame...
(Score:5, Funny)
by markbt73 (1032962) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:07PM (#19183867)
You don't need cryogenic centers. Two guys with a phone booth will do just fine.
"Hello San Dimas!"
--
"Oh boy! Are we going to try something dangerous?"
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Such a shame...
(Score:5, Funny)
by twistedsymphony (956982) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:22PM (#19184099)
(http://thoughthead.com/)
No mod points for the reference? ... BOGUS
--
~Arrogant, bias, and verbose rants about game consoles [thoughthead.com]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Such a shame...
(Score:5, Funny)
by ozbird (127571) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:16PM (#19184015)
If only cryogenic resurrection centers had existed at that time we might still have Lincoln with us today.
... and after seeing the current state of the Union, he'd probably shoot himself.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Such a shame...
(Score:2)
by linguizic (806996) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:56PM (#19184601)
(http://improbableuniverse.blogspot.com/)
he'd probably shoot himself.
Or he would if he weren't just just a head in a jar.
--
Brought to you by Carl's Junior.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Such a shame...
(Score:1)
by ch-chuck (9622) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:16PM (#19184017)
(http://slashdot.org/)
Then he could finally tell us if Booth acted alone or if there was another gunman shooting from the refreshment stand.
--
Teamwork makes the Dream Work.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
So what? I can dish out more examples too...
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @03:50PM (#19183579)
If we could go back in 1907 knowing what we know today, we might have a chance to save the planet and our own future as a race.
Quick, somebody go and build a time machine!
[ Reply to This ]
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
#
Theoretical Only
(Score:1)
by Mephistophocles (930357) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:51PM (#19183587)
(http://mephistophocles.squarespace.com/)
These sorts of studies are interesting in that they often prove that modern medicine could have saved these famous folks, but what they fail to take into consideration is the fact that such people existed only because of the times they lived in. It's impossible to imagine that Beethoven, for example, could have been "saved" by modern medicine when one considers that Beethoven could not exist as he was in the modern age.
Don't get me wrong, it's certainly an interesting study to attempt to diagnose an individual's condition when only historical data exists. I'm sure there also are ways in which such studies, when done correctly, could help advance modern medicine. My point is just that it's important to see them in context, and to be careful not to use them as proof that modern man is somehow inherently "better" than his ancestors.
--
Deja Moo: The distinct feeling that you've heard this bull before.
[ Reply to This ]
Booker T. Washington
(Score:1)
by Chysn (898420) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:53PM (#19183625)
The 2006 guy is Booker T. Washington. For some reason, they never actually mention his name in the summary or the full treatment. (http://www.medicalalumni.org/CPC/pages/previous.h tm)
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--I'm so big, my sig has its own sig.
-- See?
[ Reply to This ]
The point
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @03:53PM (#19183643)
Everyone seems to griping about the anachronistic quality of this study, but that's sort of how it works; the point of this sort of conference seems to be to emphasize the importance of both the development of medical technology and getting that (or just the basics) available to as many people as possible, not to simply satisfy everyone's "what if" curiosity.
[ Reply to This ]
Gun impotent?
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @03:54PM (#19183649)
Millions of corpses just rolled in their graves.
[ Reply to This ]
It must be true!
(Score:2, Funny)
by katterjohn (726348) Alter Relationship <katterjohn@gmail.com> on Friday May 18, @03:55PM (#19183657)
Because I just saw him on TV with a gopher
[ Reply to This ]
Re:It must be true!
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @05:16PM (#19184843)
Don't forget the deep sea diver!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:It must be true!
(Score:5, Funny)
by Penguinshit (591885) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:42PM (#19185227)
(http://www.alsa.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday September 27, @10:02PM)
It figures that a Slashdotter wouldn't recognize a beaver....
--
Hey buddy; can you spare a dime? [alsa.org]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Dork-fest Extraordinaire
(Score:2)
by queenb**ch (446380) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:55PM (#19183661)
(http://www.xanga.com/morrighu | Last Journal: Saturday August 26, @10:16AM)
It sounds like the guys who are too embarrassed to admit that they still live in Mom's basement found somewhere else to go besides the Star Trek convention. I bet if you raided 100 of their houses, you'd find 99 sets of Spock ears. Seriously, how is this news? Any of us can sit around and speculate about what would happen if Carthage had cannons, if Herodotus had a laptop, if the Romans had camcorders, if Galen had an ICU or if Battle Star Galactica had Romulan cloaking devices or of both BSG & ST had SG's star gates. It's still just that - speculation and it's just about as relevant to anything as my toe jam.
2 cents,
Queen B.
--
Do you really think George Washington, Sam Adams, Patrick Henry, and Thomas Jefferson would approve of the Patriot Act?
[ Reply to This ]
Re:Dork-fest Extraordinaire
(Score:5, Funny)
by sd_diamond (839492) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:08PM (#19183887)
(http://www.russell-stewart.net/)
Any of us can sit around and speculate about what would happen if Carthage had cannons, if Herodotus had a laptop, if the Romans had camcorders,
I'm particularly interested in what would happen if Caligula had a camcorder.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Dork-fest Extraordinaire
(Score:2)
by jedidiah (1196) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:50PM (#19184505)
(http://penguin.lvcm.com/)
Or better yet: the Borge pope(s) or De Sade and some of his friends.
--
WinDOS: The nature of Microsoft engineering still resides within XP.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Dork-fest Extraordinaire
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 19, @03:14AM (#19188833)
I am intrigued by your ideas, and wish to subsrcibe to your newsletter.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Dork-fest Extraordinaire
(Score:2)
by Dogtanian (588974) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:48PM (#19184461)
(http://babelfish.alt...%2F%2Fslashdot.jp%2F)
It sounds like the guys who are too embarrassed to admit that they still live in Mom's basement found somewhere else to go besides the Star Trek convention. I bet if you raided 100 of their houses, you'd find 99 sets of Spock ears.
This is Slashdot, for fuck's sake. What were you expecting? Speculation on what Paris Hilton will get up to in jail? (Slashdot answer: Fake lesbian romp filmed in Nightvision, "accidentally" leaked to the press). A mix-and-match guide to this summer's colour trends in the fashion world? (Slashdot answer: Why not team a black T-shirt featuring a "scary" heavy metal print- XXL size only- with a pair of blue jeans and brown trainers- you can get these by wearing your four-year-old blue trainers, which were blue when you bought them, but are now some indeterminate shade of crap.).
Seriously, how is this news? Any of us can sit around and speculate about what would happen if Carthage had cannons, if Herodotus had a laptop, if the Romans had camcorders, if Galen had an ICU or if Battle Star Galactica had Romulan cloaking devices
That last one's not real, just thought you'd like to know. Though it won't stop people speculating anyway.
or of both BSG & ST had SG's star gates. It's still just that - speculation and it's just about as relevant to anything as my toe jam.
From your Slashdot page [slashdot.org], I notice that you claim to write fiction. Is fiction in general any more "relevant"?
Not that I think much of your "new piece of fiction" [fictionpress.com] anyway;
404 Not Found
The resource requested could not be found on this server! Powered By LiteSpeed Web Server
Lite Speed Technologies is not responsible for administration and contents of this web site!
You really need to work on the plot... characterisation is a bit lightweight too.
--
The world of Slashdot it will pass very.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Yeah, maybe, but...
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @03:55PM (#19183663)
Zombie Jesus hates it when people cheat death, so he might have fried Lincoln's ass with his eye lasers a couple days later anyway. Then Time-travelling Elvis might have gyrated on Lincoln's crisp body while Parallel-dimension Grog the Caveman and Down-the-street William might have done play-by-play.
[ Reply to This ]
who tags this crap?
(Score:1)
by luckymutt (996573) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:56PM (#19183679)
Why is this tagged "biotech" and "science"??
Honestly, /. needs a "stoner revelations" tag if they are going to post this goofy stuff.
"hey...if I had gills, I bet I could swim underwater longer...yeah"
[ Reply to This ]
Good thing he's (still) dead
(Score:1, Offtopic)
by mobby_6kl (668092) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:57PM (#19183687)
Lincoln is overrated anyway.
[ Reply to This ]
Re:Good thing he's (still) dead
(Score:1, Troll)
by JesseL (107722) Alter Relationship <jesselambert@NospAM.gmail.com> on Friday May 18, @04:11PM (#19183925)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Saturday April 21, @02:07PM)
Amen [lneilsmith.net]. Sic Semper Tyrannis.
--
"All you really own is whatever you can carry in two hands at a dead run." -RAH
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Energy / Velocity Compared..
(Score:4, Informative)
by nexuspal (720736) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:59PM (#19183737)
Lincoln was shot with a .41 derringer, possibly using a rimfire cartridge filled with black power link [wikipedia.org]
It consisted of a 130 grain lead bullet propelled at 425 ft/second and had a total energy of right around 52 ft. lbs.
Compare that to a modern day 40 S&W cartridge (used by most police today), that sends a 135 grain modern day Jacketed Hollow Point expanding bullet at a velocity of 1200 ft/second producing around 432 ft. lbs. of energy out of a 4 inch barrel (slight loss of velocity for a shorter barrel). This would have gone clean through the head, leaving an approximately .8 inch diameter hole as opposed to the .41 inch hole left by the derringer that did not penetrate
link [wikipedia.org]
He most likely would not have survived if this happened in the modern day.
--
I've read Slashdot for the last 5 years, and now I start posting... Go figure :-P
[ Reply to This ]
Thanks...
(Score:1)
by nexuspal (720736) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:15PM (#19183995)
I show the actual velocity figures for a .41 black powder cartridge and get marked redundant... Thanks Slashdot... Maybe everyone knew that they produced a paultry 51 ft. lbs. and I'm just talking to the wall. (51 ft. lbs. is 50 ft. lbs. less than a 22 rimfire!).
--
I've read Slashdot for the last 5 years, and now I start posting... Go figure :-P
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Energy / Velocity Compared..
(Score:2)
by djh101010 (656795) * Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:21PM (#19184081)
(Last Journal: Thursday February 08, @12:03AM)
Lincoln was shot with a .41 derringer, possibly using a rimfire cartridge filled with black power link [wikipedia.org]
It consisted of a 130 grain lead bullet propelled at 425 ft/second and had a total energy of right around 52 ft. lbs.
Everything I've seen shows he was shot with a .44 derringer, not a .41 derringer. Significant difference. Also, was it a cartridge gun or a muzzleloader? I've seen it, I just don't remember. If it's a muzzleloader then it's impossible for us to know what the ME was of that particular shot; someone trying to kill the President probably didn't follow the manufacturer's safe loading guidelines. I'm trying to find a link to the pics of the exact gun but they're blocked from where I'm at right now...
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[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Energy / Velocity Compared..
(Score:1)
by nexuspal (720736) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:24PM (#19184133)
link
He was shot with a .41 from all sources I can find. Also, I completely agree that he may have used a muzzle loader and loaded it himself with whichever quantity of black power he decided to use. Even if this is the case, it would not significantly increase the velocity of the round, we're still talking about a range of 50 - 70 foot pounds total.
--
I've read Slashdot for the last 5 years, and now I start posting... Go figure :-P
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Energy / Velocity Compared..
(Score:2)
by djh101010 (656795) * Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:28PM (#19184193)
(Last Journal: Thursday February 08, @12:03AM)
link
He was shot with a .41 from all sources I can find.
Strange, I can't find ANY that say .41, but here's what is probably definitive enough to settle both questions: Ford Theatre's website regarding the weapons used [nps.gov]. That's clearly a muzzleloader, and they clearly state it's a .44 so - given that, we could be dealing with anywhere from 160 foot pounds up to 400+, depending on the amount of powder used. Not dramatically underpowered by any standards. A 41, yes. This, not so much.
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This sig intentionally left blank, other than this text explaining that if not for this text, this sig would be blank.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Energy / Velocity Compared..
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @04:52PM (#19184535)
I could never understand the obsession gun fans have for trivial firearm details. They sound almost pornographic.
Instead of "He was shot with a pistol" you get "He was shot with a Jackasaurus .123 rimfire foobar pistol with a muzzle velocity of..." Wow! That changes everything!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Energy / Velocity Compared..
(Score:2)
by djh101010 (656795) * Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:23PM (#19184963)
(Last Journal: Thursday February 08, @12:03AM)
I could never understand the obsession gun fans have for trivial firearm details. They sound almost pornographic.
Instead of "He was shot with a pistol" you get "He was shot with a Jackasaurus .123 rimfire foobar pistol with a muzzle velocity of..." Wow! That changes everything!
Let's turn that around into something you can probably relate to then. "Your article claims it was an 800 Gigahertz Pentium 3, when in reality it was a 2.2 Gigahertz quad core AMD processor". This isn't a case of obsession, it's a case of one of the main assumptions that many people here have expressed - that the gun used was underpowered by modern standards, isn't correct. To you the difference between a .41 rimfire cartridge and a .44 muzzleloader are trivial and easily dismissed, but to someone who actually understands even the basics of the topic, it's a critical distinction. And, that distinction changes the entire premise of the "We could have saved him with modern medicine" from "maybe" to "I don't think so", depending on if we're talking .41 or .44 for the weapon, how much powder was used in the muzzleloading .44, and so on.
That said, your response seems to indicate that something beyond mere ignorance is making you respond the way you are.
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[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Energy / Velocity Compared..
(Score:1)
by nexuspal (720736) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:29PM (#19184211)
Actually, there seems to be some saying .44 and some saying .41, and both calibers are coming from credible sources (NIH says .41, Amazon book says .44, another source says he used a .45 bore patched with a .41 cal ball). If the later is the case (.41 ball in a .45 bore), the velocity figures would need to be increased, as the volume of black power would be higher than a gun having a .41 bore.
--
I've read Slashdot for the last 5 years, and now I start posting... Go figure :-P
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Energy / Velocity Compared..
(Score:2)
by djh101010 (656795) * Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:56PM (#19184589)
(Last Journal: Thursday February 08, @12:03AM)
Actually, there seems to be some saying .44 and some saying .41, and both calibers are coming from credible sources (NIH says .41, Amazon book says .44, another source says he used a .45 bore patched with a .41 cal ball).
Interesting. I don't know that I've ever heard of anyone doing that, but wouldn't that have the same effect as a sabot, or a modern bottleneck cartridge? Larger volume of powder behind a smaller, faster projectile? Not sure how the ballistics work, energy-wise. Seems to me that the powder has a set amount of energy regardless of what it's pushing against assuming complete combustion (which I think is a given with black powder). Might have made it go faster, but it's lighter, so ... maybe a wash.
Hmmm...I do have a few .44 BP pistols, and I have a chronograph...this could be an interesting weekend experiment.
If the later is the case (.41 ball in a .45 bore), the velocity figures would need to be increased, as the volume of black power would be higher than a gun having a .41 bore.
Interesting. .030" is a long way to go with a cloth patch, but...that's only .015" on each side, couple layers, snug fit and hard to reload but that obviously wasn't his main concern. So hard to guess what he was thinking and what/why he did what he did.
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This sig intentionally left blank, other than this text explaining that if not for this text, this sig would be blank.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
He would die anyway today
(Score:2)
by Rude Turnip (49495) Alter Relationship <rudeturnip@@@valdot...org> on Friday May 18, @04:02PM (#19183765)
(http://valdot.org/)
What would happen today is that the bullet would be deflected by Chuck Norris' beard...Lincoln's head would explode out of shear amazement.
--
Please help foster pets in need of medical care! [bcaaofnj.org]
[ Reply to This ]
WTF?
(Score:2)
by Cytlid (95255) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:02PM (#19183769)
(http://geexology.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday October 11, @08:25PM)
WTF is this? A cross between Doogie Houser and a LARP? What do they call it, "Fantasy Medicine"?
--
FLR
[ Reply to This ]
Stating the obvious
(Score:4, Insightful)
by orclevegam (940336) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:02PM (#19183775)
In other news, a recent study shows that using modern materials as well as safety and engineering best practices might have prevented the Titanic disaster.
Seriously, it's been said many times on here already, but, how is this news?
--
Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
[ Reply to This ]
Re:Stating the obvious
(Score:1)
by Notquitecajun (1073646) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:16PM (#19184005)
Also, not running into an iceberg. Is it just an urban legend that they were too cheap to buy a pair of binoculars?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Stating the obvious
(Score:3, Informative)
by orclevegam (940336) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:21PM (#19184075)
Is it just an urban legend that they were too cheap to buy a pair of binoculars?
Yes, it's an Urban Legend. They had binoculars and they afforded them an excellent view of fog. Of course, knowing they were going into water that had icebergs floating in it, they probably would have been smart to drastically cut their speed, or perhaps plot a coarse around the fog bank, but then again, they believed the marketing kool-aid. In other news Vista is the most successful OS ever created.
--
Curiosity was framed, Ignorance killed the cat.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
OT plug for Lincoln biography
(Score:2)
by CheeseTroll (696413) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:04PM (#19183799)
OT, but a lot more interesting, IMHO...
I'm currently reading a fantastic biography of Lincoln & several members of his cabinet, called Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln [amazon.com]
I've never found politics particularly interesting, but Doris Kearns Goodwin really brings it to life.
--
Waiting for images.slashdot.org....
[ Reply to This ]
Tommorow's technology could save Jesus
(Score:2)
by suv4x4 (956391) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:05PM (#19183813)
Check this video [youtube.com] for the details of a fascinating technology of tommorow, that could save Jesus.
--
If you're reading this there's 99% chance you're wasting your time on Slashdot.
[ Reply to This ]
There's a big flaw in their logic
(Score:5, Funny)
by sd_diamond (839492) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:05PM (#19183825)
(http://www.russell-stewart.net/)
This year Dr. Thomas M. Scalea, physician-in-chief for the R Adams Cowley Shock Trauma Center discusses if the world's first center for trauma victims could have improved the outcome had Lincoln's assassination occurred in 2007
They failed to take into account how frail and weak a Lincoln would be at the age of 198. Surely this would offset most of the benefits of modern medicine.
Honestly, guys, do I have to do all of your thinking for you?
[ Reply to This ]
You got there first.
(Score:1)
by John Guilt (464909) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:15PM (#19184835)
Curse me for working today, the important stuff gets ignored....
(But I would have added, "Thank-you, thank-you...try your waiter, tip me, your veal will be here all week.")
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Newsflash! Amelia Earhart Could Have Survived!
(Score:1)
by searchr (564109) Alter Relationship <searchr@gmaiSLACKWAREl.com minus distro> on Friday May 18, @04:06PM (#19183841)
If only she had a modern GPS unit on her.
And Dinosaurs. They'd exist today if only there were modern breeding programs at the time.
And the Hindenburg. with modern safety features, it never would have burned.
And Jack the Ripper. Modern forensics would have closed his case.
So many avertable tragedies. So few time machines.
[ Reply to This ]
Re:Newsflash! Amelia Earhart Could Have Survived!
(Score:2)
by Torvaun (1040898) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:19PM (#19184891)
Modern GPS unit still wouldn't have any satellites to triangulate with. Just thought I'd throw that one out there.
--
I see your informative link, and raise you a pithy comment.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Newsflash! Amelia Earhart Could Have Survived!
(Score:1)
by searchr (564109) Alter Relationship <searchr@gmaiSLACKWAREl.com minus distro> on Friday May 18, @05:26PM (#19185013)
The time traveler would have GPS capability, routed through his temporal receiver (so he's recieving the signals from the future) so he could route Amelia's signals through his receiver. Easy peasy.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Compare apples with apples
(Score:4, Insightful)
by Opportunist (166417) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:06PM (#19183843)
An assassin today wouldn't use an outdated gun. He'd use an automatic, if available (Uzis come to mind) and spray his target. Or he would use a weapon with greater impact.
Of course it's easy to say today all those people who were murdered could have been saved with modern medicine. I'm quite aware that assassins are aware of this and use methods that prove to be fatal compared to the potential of their adversaries, the medics trying to save the life of the target.
Think of Caesar. Back then a stab anywhere in the abdomen was pretty much a surefire way to kill. Today you might have to hit your mark, and even then...
Think of all those people who were poisoned. How many would go to a doc today and he'd find out immediately and before it's too late that they are poisoned and what the antidote would be? Would an assassin use the same poison? No, he'd pick a killing method that can't be countered. Just like they did back then.
So, generally, I wouldn't read too much into this. Yes, they could have been saved by modern medicine if someone was stupid enough to try to kill them in an old fashion way.
--
In Soviet Russia, the government controls the commerce.
[ Reply to This ]
Re:Compare apples with apples
(Score:1)
by Notquitecajun (1073646) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:20PM (#19184063)
An assassin today wouldn't use an outdated gun. He'd use an automatic, if available (Uzis come to mind) and spray his target. Or he would use a weapon with greater impact. Wow, you watch too many movies, and know too little about guns. Fully auto spraying is the least accurate form of shooting a gun that EXISTS. It isn't worth the time or effort to get a fully automatic firearm for such a purpose, anyway - they're illegal unless you have a special permit that is expensive and impossible to get, and too dang easy to track if you DO have one illegally.
A silenced .22 would have done the job. An assassin MIGHT use a larger caliber.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Compare apples with apples
(Score:2)
by Opportunist (166417) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @08:50PM (#19186913)
Well, here that .22 would be just as illegal, so legality is not an issue. But you're right, you'd have to take the circumstances into account.
Here, I'd still use something with a lot of RPM that's still concealable, if you have to insist in doing it in a theater. With a semi-auto your chance is good that someone gets up in the most inappropriate moment and catches your bullet.
--
In Soviet Russia, the government controls the commerce.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Compare apples with apples
(Score:2)
by Neoprofin (871029) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @10:31PM (#19187565)
Getting a permit for that silencer (from the ATF) consts the same and is identically priced to the permit for getting an automatic weapon.
Not to mention that a silencer won't hide you in a dark and quiet theater, so why bother.
Not to mention that .22s have been known to glance off skulls if they hit them wrong alot more frequently due to low mass and (comparitive, to say .223) low velocity.
LAPD and FBI studies have shown that on a per case basis looking at incidents of shooting vs. fatalities, nothing provides a one shot kill and no caliber is more dangerous than any other (of 9mm up) shoot anyone enough, and in the right areas, and they will die.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
You'd be surprised
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @04:22PM (#19184095)
Think of Caesar. Back then a stab anywhere in the abdomen was pretty much a surefire way to kill.
The 1st century Roman military doctor, Galen, had clean, sterile military hospitals. Wounded Roman soldiers of his day had recovery rates unsurpassed until World War I.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Compare apples with apples
(Score:2)
by prelelat (201821) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:50PM (#19184503)
I'm pretty sure the point of the artical was to say how far we have come in the 100+ years in regards to medical treatment. The point is that someone in this day and age could get life saving treatment that would save your life appose to when linkin was shot.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Compare apples with apples
(Score:2)
by Opportunist (166417) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @08:52PM (#19186937)
That's a given. Medicine has made incredible leaps in the last century, just like every science.
--
In Soviet Russia, the government controls the commerce.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Compare apples with apples
(Score:1)
by indiechild (541156) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @10:48PM (#19187665)
An assassin would probably use a pistol. A submachinegun is usually too bulky to conceal and would be spotted by Secret Service agents as the assailant closes in. Or he would use a sniper rifle. But most likely scenario is a pistol at close range somehow. And it would be a suicidal type mission -- either the assassin would be killed by return fire, or he would be immediately apprehended.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
an assassin today
(Score:2)
by circletimessquare (444983) Alter Relationship <circletimessquare@@@gmail...com> on Saturday May 19, @01:55AM (#19188553)
(http://circletimessquare.com/)
would (did) use polonium 210
--
I'm making a Low Budget HDV Filipino Horror Movie in NYC [griefmovie.com]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
2 replies beneath your current threshold.
#
Compare apples with apples
(Score:4, Insightful)
by Opportunist (166417) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:06PM (#19183843)
An assassin today wouldn't use an outdated gun. He'd use an automatic, if available (Uzis come to mind) and spray his target. Or he would use a weapon with greater impact.
Of course it's easy to say today all those people who were murdered could have been saved with modern medicine. I'm quite aware that assassins are aware of this and use methods that prove to be fatal compared to the potential of their adversaries, the medics trying to save the life of the target.
Think of Caesar. Back then a stab anywhere in the abdomen was pretty much a surefire way to kill. Today you might have to hit your mark, and even then...
Think of all those people who were poisoned. How many would go to a doc today and he'd find out immediately and before it's too late that they are poisoned and what the antidote would be? Would an assassin use the same poison? No, he'd pick a killing method that can't be countered. Just like they did back then.
So, generally, I wouldn't read too much into this. Yes, they could have been saved by modern medicine if someone was stupid enough to try to kill them in an old fashion way.
--
In Soviet Russia, the government controls the commerce.
[ Reply to This ]
Re:Compare apples with apples
(Score:1)
by Notquitecajun (1073646) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:20PM (#19184063)
An assassin today wouldn't use an outdated gun. He'd use an automatic, if available (Uzis come to mind) and spray his target. Or he would use a weapon with greater impact. Wow, you watch too many movies, and know too little about guns. Fully auto spraying is the least accurate form of shooting a gun that EXISTS. It isn't worth the time or effort to get a fully automatic firearm for such a purpose, anyway - they're illegal unless you have a special permit that is expensive and impossible to get, and too dang easy to track if you DO have one illegally.
A silenced .22 would have done the job. An assassin MIGHT use a larger caliber.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Compare apples with apples
(Score:2)
by Opportunist (166417) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @08:50PM (#19186913)
Well, here that .22 would be just as illegal, so legality is not an issue. But you're right, you'd have to take the circumstances into account.
Here, I'd still use something with a lot of RPM that's still concealable, if you have to insist in doing it in a theater. With a semi-auto your chance is good that someone gets up in the most inappropriate moment and catches your bullet.
--
In Soviet Russia, the government controls the commerce.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Compare apples with apples
(Score:2)
by Neoprofin (871029) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @10:31PM (#19187565)
Getting a permit for that silencer (from the ATF) consts the same and is identically priced to the permit for getting an automatic weapon.
Not to mention that a silencer won't hide you in a dark and quiet theater, so why bother.
Not to mention that .22s have been known to glance off skulls if they hit them wrong alot more frequently due to low mass and (comparitive, to say .223) low velocity.
LAPD and FBI studies have shown that on a per case basis looking at incidents of shooting vs. fatalities, nothing provides a one shot kill and no caliber is more dangerous than any other (of 9mm up) shoot anyone enough, and in the right areas, and they will die.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
You'd be surprised
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @04:22PM (#19184095)
Think of Caesar. Back then a stab anywhere in the abdomen was pretty much a surefire way to kill.
The 1st century Roman military doctor, Galen, had clean, sterile military hospitals. Wounded Roman soldiers of his day had recovery rates unsurpassed until World War I.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Compare apples with apples
(Score:2)
by prelelat (201821) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:50PM (#19184503)
I'm pretty sure the point of the artical was to say how far we have come in the 100+ years in regards to medical treatment. The point is that someone in this day and age could get life saving treatment that would save your life appose to when linkin was shot.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Compare apples with apples
(Score:2)
by Opportunist (166417) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @08:52PM (#19186937)
That's a given. Medicine has made incredible leaps in the last century, just like every science.
--
In Soviet Russia, the government controls the commerce.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Compare apples with apples
(Score:1)
by indiechild (541156) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @10:48PM (#19187665)
An assassin would probably use a pistol. A submachinegun is usually too bulky to conceal and would be spotted by Secret Service agents as the assailant closes in. Or he would use a sniper rifle. But most likely scenario is a pistol at close range somehow. And it would be a suicidal type mission -- either the assassin would be killed by return fire, or he would be immediately apprehended.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
an assassin today
(Score:2)
by circletimessquare (444983) Alter Relationship <circletimessquare@@@gmail...com> on Saturday May 19, @01:55AM (#19188553)
(http://circletimessquare.com/)
would (did) use polonium 210
--
I'm making a Low Budget HDV Filipino Horror Movie in NYC [griefmovie.com]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
THIS JUST IN...
(Score:1)
by sigsegfalt (1104159) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:06PM (#19183855)
Computers are also faster now than they were 150 years ago.
[ Reply to This ]
Thank you
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @04:07PM (#19183863)
Thank you for emailing me an image of a message regarding my inbox. I will be sure to check it soon.
[ Reply to This ]
hypothetical situations resolved hypothetically
(Score:1)
by jollyreaper (513215) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:07PM (#19183869)
Yeah, and AK-47's would have won the war for the South.
http://www.amazon.com/Guns-South-Harry-Turtledove/ dp/0345413660/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-8054677-9538469? ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179518794&sr=8-1 [amazon.com]
[ Reply to This ]
Re:hypothetical situations resolved hypothetically
(Score:2)
by jedidiah (1196) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:56PM (#19184599)
(http://penguin.lvcm.com/)
Yes, but not exactly how you think.
The 22 rifles that your local Boy Scout troop practices with would have achieved the same effect.
So would have Winchesters.
You and Turtletaub are falling prey "big bad gun" propaganda.
--
WinDOS: The nature of Microsoft engineering still resides within XP.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Sic semper tyrannis
(Score:1)
by Lucas123 (935744) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:09PM (#19183905)
So modern medicine could have saved Lincoln? So then, by that reasoning John would have had time to use his cell phone to call Jodie and profess his undying love.
[ Reply to This ]
No mention of Charles Wilkes Booth?
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @04:11PM (#19183921)
Probably would have been easier to save John Wilkes Booth. Given current attitudes, it would have been more important to save him, so they could execute him later.
[ Reply to This ]
OMG what a poignant revelation.
(Score:1)
by kennylogins (1092227) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:14PM (#19183967)
Oh and since nobody has already said it about 18 times. "He would have been shot with a modern gun, so like no way dude!" In your face article writer guy!
[ Reply to This ]
mo3 up
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @04:15PM (#19183989)
your spare time Fact: *BSD IS A the time to meet and Michael Smith How is the GNAA it. Do not share As it is& licensed Clearly become dying. See? It's influence, the [goat.cx]
[ Reply to This ]
Funny wording.
(Score:2)
by u-bend (1095729) Alter Relationship <music@u-bend.com> on Friday May 18, @04:16PM (#19184011)
(http://www.u-bend.com/)
> if the world's first center for trauma victims could have improved the outcome had Lincoln's assassination occurred in 2007.
Funny thing to attempt. Sounds like a great mafia tagline: "Improving the outcome of assassinations since 1865!"
--
http://www.u-bend.com
[ Reply to This ]
And if same-sex marriage had been available...
(Score:2)
by dpbsmith (263124) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:16PM (#19184013)
(http://www.dpbsmith.com/)
...he might have married Joshua Speed instead of Mary Todd. And, as a result, he might have been unelectable in 1860 or 2008. And might not have had a political career. And might not have been assassinated.
But if HIV had been available, he might have gotten AIDS.
But if acyclovir had been available, he might not have died from it.
But if nuclear weapons had been available, the Civil War might have turned into a nuclear holocaust and he might had died from that.
But if global warming had been available, the United States might have been uninhabitable and he might have been an Englishman.
--
The Great Big Messy Book is back in print [dpbsmith.com]
[ Reply to This ]
and .. if my mom was a cow ...
(Score:2)
by freaker_TuC (7632) Alter Relationship <[ten.vrsx] [ta] [rekaerf]> on Saturday May 19, @08:13AM (#19190011)
(Last Journal: Thursday October 27, @05:01PM)
... I would have every day fresh milk!
--
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Darn!
(Score:2)
by cashman73 (855518) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:17PM (#19184021)
So much for that plan of getting Hillary Clinton to go to the theater if she gets elected in 2008! ;-)
[ Reply to This ]
Now all we need is a time machine
(Score:1)
by mediocubano (801656) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:20PM (#19184069)
So now we just need our time machines. Take modern medicine back to Lincoln to save him. Yeah that would do it.
Wait, I just had another idea. Why not take that same time machine back to Lincoln, only 5 minutes earlier in time. Earlier enough to just yell "DUCK!
What the hell am I supposed to do with any of this information? Does this even qualify as news?
[ Reply to This ]
Lincoln wasn't worth saving
(Score:1, Flamebait)
by Yonder Way (603108) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:21PM (#19184071)
(http://unixbeard.blogspot.com/)
Before you mod me down, understand that history is won by the victors.
I would suggest that Abraham Lincoln is probably one of the templates for the current US administration. Suspension of habeus corpus, erosion of state and individual rights, unconstitutional increases of executive power, etc. If you look at US history, the tyrannical empire started well on its way under the Lincoln administration. He actually had no interest in freeing the slaves (he's on record as such) and only did so as a military strategy to try and weaken the south.
My only regret about Lincoln's assassination is that it didn't come years sooner.
OK now you can go ahead and mod me down.
--
Geek [blogspot.com] utility belt [blogspot.com]
[ Reply to This ]
Re:Lincoln wasn't worth saving
(Score:1)
by SquareVoid (973740) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:23PM (#19184955)
I keep hearing this from Lincoln bashers yet they never cite a source. Seriously, enough with the talking points and show where/when he said he was not interested in freeing the slaves. Freeing them most certainly was not a military move since he did not have any jurisdiction at the time in the south. It was more a show of power and control. That he was indeed the President of the U.S. and that the southern states had no right to secede. You think the Emancipation Proclamation actually carried any weight prior to April 1865 in the South?
Lincoln did anything in his power (and many things not in his power) to maintain the Union intact. Much of what he did is looked down upon, just like the Japanese concentration camps during WW2.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
You want a source? I got your source right here.
(Score:2)
by Yonder Way (603108) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @07:27PM (#19186375)
(http://unixbeard.blogspot.com/)
You said:
"I keep hearing this from Lincoln bashers yet they never cite a source. Seriously, enough with the talking points and show where/when he said he was not interested in freeing the slaves."
You want a source? How about Lincoln's letter to Horace Greeley where he says:
I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.
But don't take my word for it; read the letter for yourself [netins.net].
--
Geek [blogspot.com] utility belt [blogspot.com]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:You want a source? I got your source right here
(Score:1)
by Tickletaint (1088359) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @10:53PM (#19187687)
If you could go back in time and talk to Americans in the Civil War era, the vast majority would agree that slavery was the central issue of the war. Some would say it was an economic issue in which slavery played a major role; others would see the war as the Jeffersonian yeomen's stand against Northern urbanism; still others would put it in terms of states' rights, as do their intellectual progeny even today. But in any case you'd find the most consistent, the most compelling and powerfully emotional common thread in all perspectives of the division between North and South to be the push for abolitionism.
Moreover, Lincoln himself saw slavery as inhumane and incompatible with (little-r) republican values, even if (as your quote illustrates nicely) he did not consider its abolition a moral imperative worth pursuing at the cost of turning a nation against itself. This is an old meme which has been discussed to death, and if you remain convinced otherwise, so be it. I just didn't want you to lure anyone else with this particular sexy reinterpretation of history; this is one case where the common knowledge actually gets it right.
--
Presenting: The only Wikipedia page worth reading. [tinyurl.com]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:You want a source? I got your source right here
(Score:2)
by Yonder Way (603108) Alter Relationship on Saturday May 19, @12:00AM (#19188055)
(http://unixbeard.blogspot.com/)
"If you could go back in time and talk to Americans in the Civil War era, the vast majority would agree that slavery was the central issue of the war."
That is not fact; that is pure conjecture.
--
Geek [blogspot.com] utility belt [blogspot.com]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:You want a source? I got your source right here
(Score:1)
by Tickletaint (1088359) Alter Relationship on Saturday May 19, @10:03AM (#19190443)
Conjecture, yes—conjecture supported by much more historical evidence than a single letter taken out of context.
--
Presenting: The only Wikipedia page worth reading. [tinyurl.com]
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Lincoln wasn't worth saving
(Score:2)
by nuzak (959558) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:27PM (#19185033)
(Last Journal: Tuesday February 27, @04:56PM)
That and we got stuck with the fucking south. Next time the South Rises Again, can we please cut 'em loose this time?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Night Gallery
(Score:1)
by iminplaya (723125) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:33PM (#19184269)
(Last Journal: Friday May 18, @01:37AM)
No! It goes: Tap Tap Tap...Tap Tap
You went: Tap Tap Tap...Tap
Nooooo!
I hope they don't try to revive him now. He's not going to look so good.
--
That's nice [greatdreams.com] (shutdown -h NOW!)
[ Reply to This ]
Average lifespan increases attributed to medicine?
(Score:1)
by Glacial Wanderer (962045) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:37PM (#19184325)
(http://www.glacialwanderer.blogspot.com/)
I just checked and it seems the average lifespan of humans has gone from about 45 to 80 over the past 150 years. I know a lot of that is because of modern medicine, but I'm curious if anyone has an educated guess at how much of this increase is attributed to medicine (as opposed to diet, safer lifestyle, ...).
[ Reply to This ]
Life as we know it
(Score:4, Interesting)
by Avatar8 (748465) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:39PM (#19184355)
Had Lincoln been saved, the United States and probably the world would not be recognizable.
If I recall history correctly, it was not Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation nor even the defeat of the Confederate States in the Civil War that brought our country together. Lincoln's death had a major impact on the people as a whole. Reunification was cemented by it. The south was embarrassed by Boothe's action and rebellious groups ceased their activities.
Lincoln was a visionary and a very ethical man according to the history books. Had he lived, the country likely would have remained divided amongst the peoples, mentally and spiritually. I doubt our country would have unified, worked together and developed as we have. Very possibly Japan and Russia would have ended up as the only super powers in the 30's and 40's and that would leave us in a fascist/socialist/communist world.
SEE what havoc modern medicine can wreak?
Besides, if Lincoln were alive today he'd be appalled at the current legal, political and governmental systems we have in place. No room for ethics whatsoever. He has more value on the penny and the $5 bill. Sad really.
[ Reply to This ]
Re:Life as we know it
(Score:2)
by mobby_6kl (668092) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:29PM (#19185727)
The US would certainly not be the same.
Shortly after beginning his term, Lincoln would invade the states that declined to implement the Real-ID act and play ball on the speed limit/drinking age issue. He'd also re-hire Alberto Gonzales based on ideological agreements. Finally, he'd declare that all lab animals should be free, but wouldn't actually much about it, instead creating a new breathing tax and reestablishing the draft.
Speaking of reanimating famous world leaders, what would the world look now if Hitler had been saved by modern medicine?
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Life as we know it
(Score:3, Insightful)
by The One and Only (691315) Alter Relationship <phil@philwelch.net> on Friday May 18, @07:15PM (#19186235)
(http://philwelch.net/)
It was really the Spanish-American war that brought the country back together--the South bitterly hated the North even after the war, especially when the North did "reconstruction", their failed military occupation of the South. It wasn't until a hundred years later that the South finally quit segregation and stopped lynching Negroes. Rebellious groups continued their activities for decades--haven't you heard of the Ku Klux Klan? Finally, Lincoln was "a visionary and a very ethical man" according to the history books, because the history books were written by the Union. In reality, I think most presidents, given the situation Lincoln was in, would have risen to the challenge, and many of them would have done so more ethically and with more vision.
--
Q. Are you being paid by the word? A. Indeed! Verily, I am!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Life as we know it
(Score:2, Insightful)
by CravenScion (1062402) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @07:20PM (#19186287)
You're right. We wouldn't recognize the United States. But not for your reasons. Lincoln's plan was to return the Confederate States back into the Union as the prodigal sons. He had no intention of a crushing and punishing "Reconstruction." Without having to go through Reconstruction, the race issues of the South would have been solved a lot earlier and lot more amicable than they were. The only thing the South mourned with Lincoln's death was post facto when they realized who would succeed him. His death caused generations of embittered hatred between South and North. You need to crack open a history book or maybe just google the definition of scalawag and carpet bagger to understand why generations of Southerners looked to the North with a skeptical and embittered eye. Now for the humor. Although the screeching hag is technically from Illinois (a Union State), it is awesome to see carpet bagging inversed with the Junior Senator from New York. lol.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Life as we know it
(Score:2)
by Joe The Dragon (967727) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @07:38PM (#19186445)
Lincolns death was part of a Confederate plan to kill high level people in the north that did not go as planed.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Life as we know it
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @09:18PM (#19187107)
Had Lincoln been saved, the United States and probably the world would not be recognizable.
If I recall history correctly, it was not Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation nor even the defeat of the Confederate States in the Civil War that brought our country together. Lincoln's death had a major impact on the people as a whole. Reunification was cemented by it. The south was embarrassed by Boothe's action and rebellious groups ceased their activities.
You don't recall history correctly.
Lincoln's death both gave heart to defiance in the South - and gave control of the Reconstruction to radical members of the Republican Party who desired to punish the South. (Lincoln intended the nature of reconstruction to be more one of reconcilation. [1]) The backlash of the military occupation and economic opression was another century of near slavery for blacks in the South and the continued economic supremacy of the North.
Lincoln was a visionary and a very ethical man according to the history books. Had he lived, the country likely would have remained divided amongst the peoples, mentally and spiritually. I doubt our country would have unified, worked together and developed as we have. Very possibly Japan and Russia would have ended up as the only super powers in the 30's and 40's and that would leave us in a fascist/socialist/communist world.
Yet the country _did_ remain divided, mentally, spiritually, and economically. (As noted above, this was deliberate policy.) That split is barely scabbed over even today - but it will disappear entirely within another forty years or so. One of the side effects of modern mass communications, personal mobility, and 'mallification [everything2.com]' is that even small towns in the South are increasingly indistinguishable from LA or New York. The work and hope of my generation - that Southerners could retain the manners and culture of their heritage, while discarding racism and bias, has been undone by McDonald's and MTV.
Besides, if Lincoln were alive today he'd be appalled at the current legal, political and governmental systems we have in place. No room for ethics whatsoever.
Lincoln doled out political patronage as enthusiastically as any other politician of his generation. He also, when it suited him, ran roughshod over the Constitution and created Presidential powers out of thin air.
[1] Enshrined in the closing paragraph of his second inauguaral adress: With malice toward none; with charity for all; with firmness in the right, as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in; to bind up the nation's wounds; to care for him who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan -- to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace, among ourselves, and with all nations.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Life as we know it
(Score:2)
by b0s0z0ku (752509) Alter Relationship on Saturday May 19, @08:35AM (#19190115)
One of the side effects of modern mass communications, personal mobility, and 'mallification' is that even small towns in the South are increasingly indistinguishable from LA or New York. The work and hope of my generation - that Southerners could retain the manners and culture of their heritage, while discarding racism and bias, has been undone by McDonald's and MTV.
Last I checked, New York City isn't a car-based 'suburban wasteland' where you have to drive to a shopping mall to buy anything useful (have you even *been* to NYC). And things like Wal*Mart are indigenous forces, not external ones -- WM started in Arkansas IIRC. I do, however, agree that the convergence and homogenization of American culture sort of sucks.
-b.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Life as we know it
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Saturday May 19, @05:44AM (#19189473)
"Here is something, an event that altered world history..."
Umm - RUBBISH!
Lincoln was a third-rate president of a hick country the rest of the world didn't care about. Just because it had a civil war, the American history books pretend that this jumped-up lawyer was important. No, he wasn't. The North would have won anyway, and Lincoln did nothing of lasting importance. America would have slaughtered all the Indians and stolen their land with or without his help. The rest of the world had already freed all their slaves long ago.
Britain and France were the two world powers at the time, with Germany rising fast. American influence on this fight was insignificant. America only achieved power by default - waiting until the other powers had fought themselves into bankrupcy. Nothing to do with Lincoln at all.
Of course, this could be 'World History' in the American sense, like the 'World Series'.....
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
James A. Garfield
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @04:41PM (#19184377)
Modern medicine *absolutely* would have saved James A. Garfield [wikipedia.org]. It took him over two months to die, and that of an infection! There is an argument that he was the most intelligent man to ever be President, so one has to wonder if he might have accomplished something if he hadn't been in office for only six months, two of them in what turned out to be his deathbed.
[ Reply to This ]
Re:James A. Garfield
(Score:1)
by Tim the Gecko (745081) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:33PM (#19185111)
Modern medicine *absolutely* would have saved James A. Garfield. It took him over two months to die, and that of an infection!
Apparently even medicine of his own time would have saved him. He had the misfortune to be treated by older doctors who didn't believe in new-fangled antiseptics, and poked at his wounds with unsterilized fingers.
The author of a recent biography, Ira Rutkow, was on C-SPAN's BookTV recently, talking about Garfield's medical treatment. He joked about reading the doctors' reports of the President's improvement; they were so upbeat that you half expected him to be still alive today.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Other people who could have been saved
(Score:0)
by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @04:45PM (#19184421)
Jesus, umm, maybe not, as this girl [foxnews.com] found out
[ Reply to This ]
So If They Had Modern Medicine Back Then...
(Score:2)
by Greyfox (87712) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:47PM (#19184447)
(http://www.flying-rhenquest.net/)
Lincolin might still be alive today?
No... Probably not.
--
Home of the Flying Rhenquest [flying-rhenquest.net]
[ Reply to This ]
Sure it could have saved him...
(Score:1)
by vimh42 (981236) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:54PM (#19184547)
but he'd still be dead.
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Stupid
(Score:1)
by Shaltenn (1031884) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:57PM (#19184623)
(http://ramblingsofagamer.blogspot.com/)
Had Lincoln's assassination occured in 2007 I doubt they would have used a Deringer single-shot pistol and a 3" hunting knife.
Today we would see 6" or longer steel bowie knife and a semiautomatic handgun with rounds designed to splinter on impact and cause maximum fragmentation.
Still neat, but a little misleading. Should be something along the lines of "Had we been able to transplant Lincoln to 2007" then it'd be ok. 
--
If you were offended by anything I said... No, I'm not sorry. Please lighten up.
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Cryogenics
(Score:2)
by NitsujTPU (19263) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @04:58PM (#19184635)
It's too bad that we didn't freeze him.
Oh well, we already know that they get his head back by the year 3000. It sits in the Hall of Presidents, in the head museum.
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This just in!
(Score:1)
by Eigtball (1081119) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:10PM (#19184745)
How do these get to front page.
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I doubt it
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by zmollusc (763634) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:14PM (#19184805)
Even such a relatively puny weapon would cause severe problems if lincoln were injured with it today, as he would be nearly 200 years old and this would greatly complicate matters.
--
They who's government reduces their essential liberties for temporary security, receive neither liberty or security.
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I don't think so
(Score:2)
by Tribbin (565963) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:17PM (#19184863)
(http://tribbin.nl/)
I don't think the medicine would have saved him. He would have died because of aging by now.
--
If you mod this up, your slashdot background will turn into a beautiful sunset!
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Yes but...
(Score:2)
by Arthur B. (806360) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:31PM (#19185075)
is it worth saving someone who lifted the habeas corpus, started a war, used conscription, established income taxes... This guy was a disgusting criminal.
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Re:Yes but...
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by geekoid (135745) Alter Relationship <dadinportland@ya ... .com minus punct> on Friday May 18, @06:31PM (#19185769)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Thursday February 21, @05:37PM)
All his actions were upheld by the courts. So not a criminal.
--
his mind is not for rent, to god or government. - Rush, the musicians, not the fat tard.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:Yes but...
(Score:2)
by Bluesman (104513) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @07:10PM (#19186173)
(http://kidbasic.sourceforge.net/)
The Confederacy started the war when they took Fort Sumter. Lincoln was trying to avoid war at all costs. It didn't work.
--
If moderation could change anything, it would be illegal.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Well.........
(Score:2)
by wpiman (739077) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:33PM (#19185113)
We have Viagra in the Lincoln bedroom nowadays...............
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Movie with this kind of speculation...
(Score:2)
by Sponge Bath (413667) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:43PM (#19185235)
The Final Countdown (1980)
Wouldn't it be cool if a modern aircraft carrier with fighter jets was available at Pearl Harbor?
Then Kirk Douglas could beat those pesky Japanese!
--
I've got the devil in my feet.
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Poor guy
(Score:2)
by brkello (642429) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @05:45PM (#19185269)
If he just lasted a little longer.
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remastered edition
(Score:0)
by edson at lies.cl (652479) Alter Relationship <edson@@@edson...cl> on Friday May 18, @06:14PM (#19185543)
(http://www.edson.cl/)
so, in this version lincon shot first?
--
i have found, you can find,happiness in slavery!
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Call me
(Score:2)
by geekoid (135745) Alter Relationship <dadinportland@ya ... .com minus punct> on Friday May 18, @06:23PM (#19185657)
(http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Thursday February 21, @05:37PM)
when it can save him right now.
--
his mind is not for rent, to god or government. - Rush, the musicians, not the fat tard.
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In the news today...
(Score:2)
by gwoodrow (753388) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:25PM (#19185677)
...progressions in medicine help people heal better. You heard it here first - on DNN, your Duh News Network. I remember playing Oregon trail and having family members in the game die of diarrhea. They may have called such an ailment "death" way back when, but you know what I call it? Saturday.
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Lol
(Score:2, Troll)
by Dunbal (464142) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:28PM (#19185711)
The modern prognosis predicts that Lincoln might have conceivably recovered enough to return to the White House to complete his second term.
Plus George W. Bush has proven that you can be President for two consecutive terms without actually having a brain, so any brain damage Lincoln could have suffered would have a negligible impact on his professional career.
Heh, mod me troll bitches, but you know it's true!
--
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
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could have saved Christ also
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by yoyoq (1056216) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @06:47PM (#19185935)
Couple of stiches on the wrist and feet.
Taking him off the cross would have helped also.
Why do i waste so much time at this site?
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What we need is more people living
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by arse maker (1058608) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @07:02PM (#19186105)
Lets save everyone, death is bad, hey, 140 billion alive will be fun wont it? As long as they are mainly hot gurls who want to have sex at the drop of a hat.. hurm.. i watch too much net pr0n. But seriously, the quest for longer life equates to death, we cant sustain life with 10-20-40 billion, just accept it. You have 80 years on average, enjoy it. If you are president with some slaves, you get less.
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If it wasn't for modern medical technology
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by jfern (115937) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @07:08PM (#19186153)
There would be a lot more than 3409 US soldiers dead in the Iraq war.
As it is, far far more of them are seriously injured, many losing one or more limbs.
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Someone had to say it...
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by jcwayne (995747) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @07:11PM (#19186189)
Well ain't that a shot in the head!!!
Actually I think everyone is missing the point. It's not modern medicine, but modern transportation [fox11az.com] that would have made the difference.
--
The 1st speech censored, the 1st thought forbidden, the 1st freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably. -Picard ST:TNG
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dreams of death
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by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 18, @07:27PM (#19186371)
maybe, maybe not. he dreamed of his death before it happened, so who's to say anything could have saved him.
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We might have been able to..
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by nurb432 (527695) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @07:49PM (#19186553)
(http://slashdot.org/~nurb432/ | Last Journal: Friday August 27, @04:24PM)
But would we really want to?
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---- Booth was a patriot ----
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Here's the way doctors do it today
(Score:3, Informative)
by nbauman (624611) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @08:27PM (#19186797)
(http://www.nasw.org/users/nbauman/ | Last Journal: Thursday May 03, @03:50PM)
As John Lennon said, there have been lots of advances in medicine, thanks to war. They improved the treatment of head wounds like this in the Vietnam war, and they got it down to a science in the Iraq war.
Here's the way they do it today:
http://content.nejm.org/content/vol352/issue20/ima ges/large/02f2.jpeg [nejm.org]
Sergeant David Emme, a supply officer with a U.S. Army Stryker Brigade, was stationed at a submachine gun on a truck rolling through northern Iraq last November, in a convoy transporting Iraqi volunteers to Mosul for military training. As they entered the town of Talafar, Emme noticed that the streets were unusually quiet: no children were outdoors running toward the vehicles demanding sweets. Emme got on the radio and warned others in the convoy: "Something might happen. They might have some plan for us." Moments later, as they slowed at a traffic circle, an improvised explosive device (IED) went off right next to Emme's truck, knocking him out....
New England Journal of Medicine
Traumatic Brain Injury in the War Zone
Susan Okie, M.D.
Volume 352:2043-2047
May 19, 2005
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/352/20/20 43 [nejm.org]
They can survive, but life after a severe head wound is pretty bad:
Jason Pepper can't see the deer and wild turkeys that feed in the pasture in front of his new home, an hour's drive from Nashville. But when he sits and smokes on his front porch, he likes knowing they're out there -- and even more, he savors the silence. Pepper, who was blinded by a bomb in Iraq in 2004, completed a rehabilitation program for blind veterans last year at the Edward Hines, Jr., Veterans Affairs Hospital in Illinois, learning to find his way using a cane and a personal global positioning system (GPS) device. With this device he was able to travel alone by public transportation into downtown Chicago. By moving to the country, Pepper has given up that independence: his wife or her brother must drive him to his college classes and other appointments. But to Pepper, a former Army combat engineer still struggling with disabling headaches, episodic anxiety, and other sequelae of the blast that blinded him, damaged his brain, wounded both arms, and destroyed his sense of smell, it seemed more important to escape from the sounds he associates with danger and combat....
New England Journal of Medicine
Reconstructing Lives -- A Tale of Two Soldiers
Susan Okie, M.D.
Volume 355:2609-2615
December 21, 2006
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/355/25/26 09 [nejm.org]
This is the war that George W. Bush got us into. I've never met a military man who could explain how he could have respect (much less vote) for a commander-in-chief who dodged the draft in Vietnam himself.
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Re:Here's the way doctors do it today
(Score:2)
by b0s0z0ku (752509) Alter Relationship on Saturday May 19, @08:38AM (#19190129)
Glad someone mentions this -- for every dead soldier coming back from Iraq, there are probably 5 or 10 soldiers who are either mentally or physically maimed. And, with modern medicine, this ratio is bound to increase. Something to think about, especially since few in the media talk about the wounded.
-b.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Another historical medical report
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by DerekLyons (302214) Alter Relationship <<fairwater> <at> <gmail.com>> on Friday May 18, @08:48PM (#19186907)
My favorite historical medical report is this psychiatric [collectionscanada.ca] consulation with one Sam McGee [wordinfo.info].
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Modern Trauma Medicine
(Score:2)
by kilodelta (843627) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @11:30PM (#19187895)
Modern trauma medicine is quite amazing. We can literally snatch people back from the jaws of death where even a decade ago they would have died.
Think about it for a moment. I'll use my city as an example. All rescue vehicles are MICU's or Mobile Intensive Care Units and they are staffed by fully trained paramedics. And average response times are 2 minutes or so in this city.
Then of course you have medicine itself. We've learned a hell of a lot from the war injured. It's the perfect testing ground for innovative procedures developed to save lives. And once it's tested and verified, it becomes practice in hospital trauma centers.
Had we not fought in WW II, Korea and Vietnam we probably wouldn't have the trauma medicine we have today. Not that I'm a war hawk or anything, but we do see benefits from it in the long run.
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No shit
(Score:1)
by Hyperspite (980252) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @11:49PM (#19188007)
How is this even a story?
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Science?
(Score:1)
by jctull (704600) Alter Relationship on Saturday May 19, @12:25AM (#19188179)
I will admit that I am late to the party and have not read all of the posts on this yet. Regardless, does this matter at all? Does this change the historical fact that Lincoln did die from the wound of an assassin? How does this advance our current knowledge or adapt the interpretation of the recorded events?
Of course it does not affect any of this. There is really no scientific merit to this at all. Perhaps the tag should be "what if" rather than "science."
Let me be noted as the first person to state that my death could have been prevented with the technological advances available in 140 years from now! I will gladly accept my great posthumous honors in advance for this amazing "discovery."
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Uhhh...No.....?
(Score:1)
by IHC Navistar (967161) Alter Relationship on Saturday May 19, @01:47AM (#19188517)
I don't think modern medicine could fix a point-blank gunshot wound from a .44 cal Minié ball to the back of the head.
With the types of powders that were used in single-shot Derringers at that time, the amount of expanding burning gasses gas and burning powder that would have blasted out of the pistol after the bullet left the barrel would have done even more damage to the brain and soft tissues, especially at that range. The hot gasses and powder would have flash-cooked and surface tissues not destroyed by the initial bullet.
Even modern day fireams, which use quicker-burning powders that burn faster and more completely inside the barrel cause "tattooing" and flash-burns on the skin of someone that has been shot. Consdering that the powders used in Lincoln's time were far slower burning, and in a Derringer, the super-short barrels of that type of pistol would have ejected burning poweder long after (relative to the time of a gun to fully discharge) the bullet had left the barrel. In my experiences, guns that have shorter barrels tend to have a larger muzzle flash that guns of the same caliber that have longer barrels. A good example of this is the M38 Mosin-Nagant which, due to the shortened barrel and larger cartridge, earned the nickname "The Russian Dragon". The longer variant of the same rifle, the M44, which uses the same cartridge, has a pronounced, yet smaller muzzle flash.
The "scientist" is severely over-confident, and probably just wants to get his name in the news.
--
Screw James Brady and the chair he rode in on. If you want free speech and thought, then don't bitch about my beliefs.
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WTF ?
(Score:1)
by HW_Hack (1031622) Alter Relationship on Saturday May 19, @03:18AM (#19188839)
These blokes have waaay to much free time on their hands - not only would such an out come be expected - but who gives a shit ! Certainly not Lincoln !
Whats next - "If DaVinci had a computer he would have designed the first airplane" ?
--
Its not the years, its the mileage .....
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Re:Interesting, But The Gun Would Be Better Too
(Score:2)
by djh101010 (656795) * Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:55PM (#19183671)
(Last Journal: Thursday February 08, @12:03AM)
A .44 blackpowder pistol isn't underpowered.
--
This sig intentionally left blank, other than this text explaining that if not for this text, this sig would be blank.
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Re:great
(Score:2)
by njchick (611256) Alter Relationship on Friday May 18, @03:56PM (#19183683)
(Last Journal: Wednesday November 22, @02:16AM)
Innocent? Incapable of harming the US? Nothing has ever harmed the United States more than the Confederation!
[ Reply to This | Parent ]
Links to Related Topics (Tags):
Headlines: May, 2007; RPCV Hugh Pickens (Peru); Peace Corps Peru; Directory of Peru RPCVs; Messages and Announcements for Peru RPCVs; Internet; Publishing; Medicine; Community Development; Peace Corps Library; Peace Corps Countries of Service; Peace Corps Original Sources; Peace Corps Message Board; Recent Peace Corps News
When this story was posted in May 2007, this was on the front page of PCOL:
Peace Corps Online The Independent News Forum serving Returned Peace Corps Volunteers
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PCOL's readership for April exceeded 525,000 visitors - a 50% increase over last year. This year also saw the advent of a new web site: Peace Corps News that together with the Peace Corps Library and History of the Peace Corps serve 17,000 RPCVs, Staff, and Friends of the Peace Corps every day. Thanks for making PCOL your source of news for the Peace Corps community. Read more. |
 | Suspect confesses in murder of PCV
Search parties in the Philippines discovered the body of Peace Corps Volunteer Julia Campbell near Barangay Batad, Banaue town on April 17. Director Tschetter expressed his sorrow at learning the news. “Julia was a proud member of the Peace Corps family, and she contributed greatly to the lives of Filipino citizens in Donsol, Sorsogon, where she served,” he said. Latest: Suspect Juan Duntugan admits to killing Campbell. Leave your thoughts and condolences . |
 | Warren Wiggins: Architect of the Peace Corps
Warren Wiggins, who died at 84 on April 13, became one of the architects of the Peace Corps in 1961 when his paper, "A Towering Task," landed in the lap of Sargent Shriver, just as Shriver was trying to figure out how to turn the Peace Corps into a working federal department. Shriver was electrified by the treatise, which urged the agency to act boldly. Read Mr. Wiggins' obituary and biography, take an opportunity to read the original document that shaped the Peace Corps' mission, and read John Coyne's special issue commemorating "A Towering Task." |
 | Chris Dodd's Vision for the Peace Corps
Senator Chris Dodd (RPCV Dominican Republic) spoke at the ceremony for this year's Shriver Award and elaborated on issues he raised at Ron Tschetter's hearings. Dodd plans to introduce legislation that may include: setting aside a portion of Peace Corps' budget as seed money for demonstration projects and third goal activities (after adjusting the annual budget upward to accommodate the added expense), more volunteer input into Peace Corps operations, removing medical, healthcare and tax impediments that discourage older volunteers, providing more transparency in the medical screening and appeals process, a more comprehensive health safety net for recently-returned volunteers, and authorizing volunteers to accept, under certain circumstances, private donations to support their development projects. He plans to circulate draft legislation for review to members of the Peace Corps community and welcomes RPCV comments. |
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One year ago, Staff Sgt. Robert J. Paul (RPCV Kenya) carried on an ongoing dialog on this website on the military and the peace corps and his role as a member of a Civil Affairs Team in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have just received a report that Sargeant Paul has been killed by a car bomb in Kabul. Words cannot express our feeling of loss for this tremendous injury to the entire RPCV community. Most of us didn't know him personally but we knew him from his words. Our thoughts go out to his family and friends. He was one of ours and he served with honor. |
 | Peace Corps' Screening and Medical Clearance
The purpose of Peace Corps' screening and medical clearance process is to ensure safe accommodation for applicants and minimize undue risk exposure for volunteers to allow PCVS to complete their service without compromising their entry health status. To further these goals, PCOL has obtained a copy of the Peace Corps Screening Guidelines Manual through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) and has posted it in the "Peace Corps Library." Applicants and Medical Professionals (especially those who have already served as volunteers) are urged to review the guidelines and leave their comments and suggestions. Then read the story of one RPCV's journey through medical screening and his suggestions for changes to the process. |
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The LA Times says that "the Peace Corps is booming again and "It's hard to know exactly what's behind the resurgence." PCOL Comment: Since the founding of the Peace Corps 45 years ago, Americans have answered Kennedy's call: "Ask not what your country can do for you--ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." Over 182,000 have served. Another 200,000 have applied and been unable to serve because of lack of Congressional funding. The Peace Corps has never gone out of fashion. It's Congress that hasn't been keeping pace. |
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Monthly readership on "Peace Corps Online" has increased in the past twelve months to 350,000 visitors - over eleven thousand every day - a 100% increase since this time last year. Thanks again, RPCVs and Friends of the Peace Corps, for making PCOL your source of information for the Peace Corps community. And thanks for supporting the Peace Corps Library and History of the Peace Corps. Stay tuned, the best is yet to come. |
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PCOL is proud to announce that Phase One of the "History of the Peace Corps" is now available online. This installment includes over 5,000 pages of primary source documents from the archives of the Peace Corps including every issue of "Peace Corps News," "Peace Corps Times," "Peace Corps Volunteer," "Action Update," and every annual report of the Peace Corps to Congress since 1961. "Ask Not" is an ongoing project. Read how you can help. |
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